My points in the previous post had only to do whether
a harmonic "gap"
is relevant for instrumentation in Vivaldi. By
framing the question
in such a way as to test whether it is unusual
or stylistically uncommon, I think I've shown that the
gap is not
relevant to the question of instrumentation, because
there
is nothing unusual about it.
My goal in gaining understanding of Vivaldi is look at
each aspect of
a problem, and to test it thoroughly, otherwise the
it impossible to separate out and evaluate the various
threads.
To consider your points below, I would try to
understand each one
separately, and try to frame them within the
context of all of Vivaldi's works. That's a big job,
although as far
as lute is concerned, Vivaldi is so intriguing.
Also my comments specifically concern RV 93. Each
concerto is
different, and if a rubric exists, that means it is
even more
different, otherwise no rubric needed.
A rubric is more often an exception than a rule.
But let's consider just one of your points below, the
one about the
Ricordi/Malipiero's house editor's realization
in the right hand of the concerto.
The question then is, is the house editor's
realization in any way
relevant to the instrumentation? And how to frame it?
I have to say, this is an unusual question, because in
many cases in
the Vivaldi edition the right hand realization is so
bad that it does
not even agree with figures from the printed sources.
But I will try to frame it.
1. Is the right hand realization a reliable source of
performance
practice for Vivaldi?
2. Is the right hand realization similar to pieces in
which the
instruments absolutely cannot play down an octave, eg,
violin, oboe?
3. Does the house editor have a sort of horror vacui,
and not only
fill in the spaces between instruments, but also in
the case of
instruments that do play lower, such as in the cello
concertos, does
the editor fill in the space ABOVE the cello (or
bassoon): that is do
they then play the pitches that the bassoon would play
if the bassoon
played UP an octave? Further, does the editor supply
notes in places
seemingly just to fill things in?
1. I think many musicologists would agree, due the
large number of
errors in the realization, including writing naturals
directly above
flats in the figures, that in Vivaldi the house editor
for the right
hand parts is neither reliable, musical, literate in
continuo style,
nor competent. I don't know any continuo players who
would play them;
we always cut them out. In any case, it shows little
of what we know
about continuo realization, nor resembles
contemporaneous
realizations. If there were a clue, it would be from
the
contemporaneous realizations. To be fair, it is
designed for people
who can't read score or figures, but unfortunately the
house editor
cannot read score or figures, either. To be more fair,
in a large
edition, there are lots of mistakes.
Indeed, when performing a work by Vivaldi, most
baroque orchestras
nowadays ASSUME that the edition has mistakes, and
that the
realization has even more mistakes.
The classic example is that the editor completely made
up the
contrabass parts, yet these are oft performed and
recorded. But they
are imaginary.
2. In the case of the instruments which cannot play
lower, violin,
oboe, and so on, and this is by far the majority of
all of Vivaldi's
concertos, the editor (I believe it is more than one,
actually) quite
often fills in the pitches that would sound if these
instruments
played lower. So this is of no significance that I can
see. But, even
if this piece were shown to have a drastically
different realization,
you would still have to consider, unfortunately, point
one above.
3. The editor is habitually an overfiller. If you look
at the
concertos as a whole ( I would say I have been through
300 at this
point, which is by no means all of them) the
realizations
relentlessly fill in the unused space. This is
particularly evident
in the realizations of the works for cello and
bassoon, and no one
would ever suggest (I'm hoping) that the bassoon
therefore play an
octave higher. Often, the editor has no more room to
fill in lower,
so he/she fills in higher. So the filling in of the
spaces, in
whatever way, can't help with sorting out the
instrumentation.
Lastly, we are still researching the pitch at which
the basslines
were played. If it was, as seems likely, a very mixed
situation in
which violas, violettas, organs, cellos, bassoons, etc
each had their
own style, then it quite possible, even likely, that
the basslines
occasionally were read up an ocatve in certain
situations. Here we
have the famous mandolin obbligato from Juditha
Triumphans to confirm
just that. But there is much more evidence. In the
case of the
violetta parts, from Scarlatti, we now have evidence
that the
basslines might have been shared by two cellos, the
smaller one
playing the higher notes; the big one the low
notes--of course they
used all gut strings so that makes perfect sense--and
we are only now
figuring out how to do that.
Which means we can record the Four Seasons again!
respectfully,
David Tayler
ofAt 01:08 PM 11/15/2007, you wrote:
Hi David,
Thanks for your insights. I agree with your some of
your points. I'm
afraid I can't agree with the upper octave and use of
continuo to
accompany the liuto/leuto for RV82, RV85, and RV93. A
continuo
role *is* clearly intended for the leuto itself in
RV540 (as he
specifically
instructs the leuto to play with the bassi in the
tuttis) likely
implying a
tenor rather than soprano instrument (he also tells
the viola d'amore to
play with the first violins (plural) during tuttis).
"Tutti, la Viola d'amore rinforza, a unisono,
i Violini I. e il
Liuto i Bassi"
Let me try to clarify what I said initially, in case
you don't have
the article.
My mentioning of this "gap" was specific to the
simpler (Prague) pieces,
the trios especially, and was secondary to the primary
(albeit
highly- subjective)
observation that doubling a violins in unison with a
soprano plucked
instrument
doesn't really add much. I realize that Vivaldi
*does* do such
things occasionally,
and in the article I cited the andante molto of RV588
as one such
example,
where he pairs unison mandolinos and violins. It
makes for an
interesting
effect, but it doesn't seem nearly as interesting to
me if that color
is carried
throughout entire pieces.
Also, to your points about continuo. As far as I can
tell, these
pieces are
scored for a single-line bass instrument "basso", a
gamba or cello
for instance,
and I found no indications for basso continuo in the
Prague pieces.
My statement
about the gap in the original article made that
assumption clear.
"Additionally, while Vivaldi is known for his
spare part writing,
interpreting
the leuto part pitched as written seems
extreme if we assume a
single-line
basso instrument (violincello) for RV82,
RV85, and RV93."
While I see no evidence for basso continuo, it can
always be
realized, of course.
In fact, the Ricordi editions for these pieces do
exactly that,
keeping the leuto part
at the higher octave and providing cembalo
realizations written in
smaller notes
for the right hand. I wrote:
"The cembalo realizations provided by the
Ricordi editions often add
exactly the same pitches the leuto would play
if its part were
transposed
down an octave from the written pitch."
In essence, I think we are close to saying the same
thing, either:
- Assume the leuto part is to be played as
written at the higher
octave
and there is a large gap, and that is
fine if you
are using B.C.,
which essentially fills in the gap
with its realization, or,
- There is no gap because the leuto actually
plays its part down an
octave
from where it is written, accompanied
by a
single-line basso
instrument.
As I said, I prefer the second explanation. Either
way, there really
is no large
harmonic gap in the final product.
At the same time, if you are proposing the leuto at
the upper
(written) octave, I think
there's more to it than this. Specifically, what
18th-century
soprano plucked
instrument would you propose for the leuto, if not a
mandolino?
Best,
Eric
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