I agree. For the most part, I tune baroque lutes in equal temperament.
ed
At 07:44 PM 6/17/2008 +0000, Mathias Rösel wrote:
Anthony,
I must confess I should be entirely surprised, withdraw anything I said
before and claim the opposite, if any of the several MT temperaments
worked with the baroque lute in D minor tuning. The simple reason is
that naturals lie on the same frets as sharps and flats, respectively.
I put up two charts so as to show the problem, the first for sharps,
assuming keys around A major (ton de la chevre); the second for the
flat, assuming keys like C or F minor (that way justifying D flat).
1. Sharps (3rd, 5th, 6th, 9th frets don't work)
0 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 |
| | | | | | | | | | |
f' | f#' | g | g#' | a' | a#' | b' | c'' | c#'' | d'' | d#'' |
d' | d#' | e | e#' | f#' | g' | g#' | a' | a#' | b' | c'' |
a | a# | b | c' | c#' | d' | d#' | e' | e#' | f#' | g' |
f | f# | g | g# | a | a# | b | c' | c#' | d' | d#' |
d | d# | e | e# | f# | g | g# | a | a# | b | c' |
A | A# | B | c | c# | d | d# | e | e# | f# | g |
2. Flats (1st, 3rd, 5th, 6th, 8th frets don't work)
0 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 |
| | | | | | | | | | |
f' | f#' | g | ab' | a' | bb' | b' | c'' | db'' | d'' | eb'' |
d' | eb' | e | f' | f#' | g' | ab' | a' | bb' | b' | c'' |
a | bb | b | c' | db' | d' | eb' | e' | f' | f#' | g' |
f | f# | g | ab | a | bb | b | c' | db' | d' | eb' |
d | eb | e | f | f# | g | ab | a | bb | b | c' |
A | Bb | B | c | db | d | eb | e | f | f# | g |
Mathias
"Anthony Hind" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb:
> Dear Timo and Rob
> I don't have that much experience with the sound of gut strung 11c
> lutes, but this one seems very sweet in the top and mid, no hint of
> woodyness, which you some times have with a new lute in that area.
> I have only just tuned it up, and probably not in the ideal 6th
> comma, but it does seem good.
>
> These are my very first impressions; It is gorgeous in the hands form
> a playing point of view, as light as feather, it feels.
> Regards
> Anthony
>
>
>
>
>
> Le 17 juin 08 à 12:32, Peedu Timo a écrit :
>
> > Dear Anthony,
> >
> > Congrats of your new lute. Will we see photos of it soon?
> >
> > Timo
> >
> > -----Alkuperäinen viesti-----
> > Lähettäjä: Anthony Hind [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Lähetetty: 17. kesäkuuta 2008 12:50
> > Vastaanottaja: [email protected] Net
> > Aihe: [LUTE] New Baroque lute/Meantone
> >
> > Dear lutists
> > Another very basic question about Meantone tuning. As we have taken
> > on board the idea that the 'old ones' first tuned the top string to
> > breaking point and then tuned up the other strings in relation to
> > that (I know this is probably not necessarily true, in particular for
> > Baroque lute).
> > However, taking that idea on board, if we consider that the top
> > string on a modern G lute is generally strung so as to be played at G
> > (LA 440Hz) and that the top string is chosen to be near breaking
> > point at G, do we have to be careful about adding the small per cents
> > that we sometimes have to add for particular 6th comma tunings.
> > I imagine these differences are so small (e.g. 3;3% in D. v. O's
> > table) that this could only matter if we took the notion of "up to
> > breaking point" too literally.
> >
> > Now, I have just received my new 11c lute, and it is quite splendid,
> > but I was told by Stephen Gottlieb by mail that it had been set up
> > with the frets in 6th comma. I just want to tune it up to try it, and
> > I am not worried about acheiving the right 6th comma for the
> > particular tonality of any specific piece. In which 6th comma variant
> > would a Baroque lute most likely to have been tuned? The strings are
> > new (only three days on the instrument, so they have obviously gone
> > quite far out of tune and don't give any indication, except the
> > possible 410Hz diapason.
> >
> > I would like to set my Turbo tuner with one of these, at least to
> > have a rapid but safe tune up. (I have a feeling the lute has been
> > tuned to LA 410, although LA 392 might be better for a 70cm lute to
> > save the top strings).
> > I know, I should do this by ear, but with a new lute, and never
> > having played an 11c, well ....
> > So should I go for 1/6th Comma Meantone with an Equally Tempered Root
> > of A, or C. I am thinking the frets have probably been set with one
> > variant in mind.
> >
> > Petersen Chart:
> > Here are the offsets for 1/6th Comma Meantone where A=440Hz:
> >
> > [b][i]Note_____Offset[/i][/b]
> > C________+04.9
> > C#_______-06.4
> > D________+01.7
> > Eb_______+09.8
> > E________-01.6
> > F________+06.5
> > F#_______-04.9
> > G________+03.3
> > Ab_______-08.2
> > A________-00.0
> > Bb_______+08.1
> > B________-03.2
> >
> > 1/6th Comma Meantone with an Equally Tempered Root of C:
> >
> > [i][b]Note_____Offset[/b][/i]
> > C________+00.0
> > C#_______-11.3
> > D________-03.2
> > Eb_______+04.9
> > E________-06.5
> > F________+01.6
> > F#_______-09.8
> > G________-01.6
> > Ab_______-13.1
> > A________-04.9
> > Bb_______+03.2
> > B________-08.1
> >
> > This from D.v.O. be better, actually it appears indicate a root of A,
> > http://home.planet.nl/~d.v.ooijen/david/writings/meantone_p_bestanden/
> > silbermann.JPG
> >
> > I am tempted to go for the root of A, simply because both the above
> > include this, but F is +06,5% (ok that can't do any harm to the top
> > string, can it?)
> >
> > I am going to contact Stephen to check, but I am a little impatient,
> > having already thoroughly photographed it.
> > Regards
> > Anthony
> > --
> >
> > To get on or off this list see list information at
> > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
>
>
--
Viele Grüße
Mathias Rösel
http://mathiasroesel.livejournal.com
http://www.myspace.com/mathiasroesel
http://de.geocities.com/mathiasroesel
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