Perhaps, it's a matter of dictionaries, indeed. Not sure for English archlute, but Erzlaute was defined to mean what we'd today call theorboed lutes by Sachs. Seem to remember he even invented the name. Will look it up when I'm back home tonight.
As for booklets, Erzlaute isn't very frequen= tly mentioned at all because there aren't many recordings with arciliuto, liuto attiorbato, archlute available over here. All theorbo players I know will call their instrument Theorbe or Chitarrone, certainly not Erzlaute. Respectfully, too, Mathias > -----Original-Nac= hricht----- > > Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Erzlaute > > Datum: Fri, 10= Jul 2009 10:48:38 +0200 > > Von: David Tayler <vidan...@sbcglobal= .net> > > An: "lute-cs.dartmouth.edu" <[email protected]>= ; > > Although I will of course defer to my German > > co= lleagues in matters of native language, > > I have used the term for = 35 years in Germany with no problems. > > If you take a few hundred C= Ds from the last > > thirty years you will find that the term is > > usually used for archlute. Not always, but very frequently. > >= You will also find from the same period that a > > proportion of the= se CDs also conflates the terms > > theorbo, chitarrone, and archlute= , so there can't > > be a definite meaning for the terms. > > H= istorically, of course, the term theorbo could also refer to an > > a= rchlute. > > Naturally, the CDs could be wrong, and they often > &= gt; are in the disposition of the instruments. > > This is understand= able, however, since many > > unabridged German dictionaries give Erz= laute as a > > synonym for Bogenlaute (which is rarely used) and > > translate it as archlute, not theorbo. > > For CDs that are ori= ginally in English or French > > those who rely on these dictionaries= for CD notes > > and translations thus keep the term current. > &= gt; In addition, musicological papers as well as > > Festival booklet= s from major festivals use not > > only these dictionaries but also t= he Grove > > Dictionary as well, and the Grove defines, > > rig= htly of wrongly, erzlaute as archlute. > > > > So it could be = that there is a difference between > > the written use of the word an= d the spoken use of > > the word, but of course the word mainly appea= rs in printed > material. > > > > Respectfully, > > dt > > > > > > At 01:16 AM 7/10/2009, you wrote: > > > > "Jerzy Zak" <[email protected]> schrieb: > > >= ; > That reminds me the term rather seldom used nowadays: > "teorbierte > > > > laute" (or close to that spelling), > > > > <= br />> > > > > It's become part of the history of research.= With Pohlmann (ch. > 7), > > > Theorbenlaute was synonymous to theo= rbierte Laute. According to > his > > > definition, Theorbenlauten w= ere lutes with first pegboxes bent > back > > > and second pegboxes = attached in the direction of the neck. > > > > > > If I'= m not mistaken, that's rather what we'd call double-headed > > > l= utes today. > > > > > > To complete confusion, he added:= "Theorbierte Lauten werden auch > > > Knickhalslauten genannt, di= e auf dem Wirbelkasten links und/oder > > > rechts Aufsaetze fuer = die hoechsten und tiefsten Saiten haben." > > > Theorbierte Lauten= are also called Knickhalslauten (lutes with > > > bent-back necks= ), which have riders on their pegboxes on the left > > > and(or on= the right for the highest or lowest strings. > > > > > >= ; Back then, I stood in awe, completely puzzled by this > sophisticated > = > > "definition". My, o my. > > > > > > > >= > > the untranslatable to Polish "re-entrant". > > > > = > > It hasn't been appropiately translated to German, either. Some > ha= ve > > > tried ruecklaeufig (downward, falling, katabatic, recurre= nt, > > > retrogressive), but in German that term evokes notions o= f someone > > > running back, and doesn't make clear that the _tun= ing_ is sort of > > > "coming back". > > > > > >= ; Mathias > > > > > > > > > > On 2009-07-09= , at 22:14, Mathias Roesel wrote: > > > > > > > &= gt; > And btw, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archlute is just as > >= ; > > > sweeping IMHO, > > > > > neglecting differe= nces between the liuto attiorbato, the > > > > > arciliuto a= nd the archlute. > > > > > > > > > > Someone= put a language link to it into > > > > > http://de.wikipedi= a.org/wiki/Erzlaute, but that is > misleading. > > > > > The G= erman term Erzlaute was meant to be generic. > > > > > > > > > > Mathias > > > > > > > > > = > "Jerzy Zak" <[email protected]> schrieb: > > > > &g= t; > > > > > > David, > > > > > > Than= ks for that. > > > > > > > > > > > > B= esides, you've writen a very interesting comment on the > > > >= > > "latest semiannual online comparison of video hosting sites > > > > > > > > > > > ". I'm absolutely > = > > > > > not qualified to comment on that, but would love t= o read > > > > > > other's -- just to remind it's still "= untouched" by other > > > > > > pluckers. Perhaps some lu= te exemple > > > > > > > > > > > ?? > = > > > > > > > > > > > J > > > &g= t; > > _____ > > > > > > > > > > > = > > > > > > > On 2009-07-09, at 20:33, David Tayler w= rote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Arc= hlute > > > > > > > dt > > > > > > &= gt; > > > > > > > At 11:29 AM 7/9/2009, you wrote: > > > > > > > > What is an "Erzlaute"? > > >= > > > > > The other instruments pecified on the page are "o= rgan, > > > > > > > > harpsichord, violins, cello, = guitar, theorbE". > > > > > > > > > > > &= gt; > > > > jz > > > > > > > > > &g= t; > > > > > > > > > > To get on or off th= is list see list information at > > > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/= ~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > -- Viele Grüße Mathias Rösel http://mathiasroesel.livejournal.com http://www.myspace.com/mathiasroesel http://de.geocities.com/mathiasroesel
