Hello Chris: I hold my ground. There is a serious tendency to dismiss earlier research as 'under-developed', with the unfortunate result of perpetually re-inventing the wheel. There are, of course, situations when cumulative knowledge leads us to a better understanding but it just will not do to dismiss the valuable work of those who have first asked the basic questions and sought reasonable answers. There is an exception. There is a category of 'scholarship' that is dogmatic, polemical and egotistical. Without naming names, scholars have killed many trees and wasted barrels of ink on the meaning of 'over-dotting' in French baroque music, whether Salieri really murdered Mozart, who wrote the preludes in Attaignant, 1529, how many singers were in Bach's choir and on and on. Still, the work has value. Some earlier work cannot be matched for thoroughness and clarity. Practically everything Howard Mayer Brown contributed retains its value. I have stayed up nights reading and following up on John Ward's amazingly thorough footnotes. Edward Lowinsky's description of 'musica ficta' in his edition of 'Musique de Ioye' is still my favorite. As for David Buch's work on French baroque lute music, I think we have gained a better understanding of the style through his work, and would not be having this discussion without it. Best wishes, Ron Andrico www.mignarda.com > Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 14:21:47 -0800 > From: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Terminology: brise > To: [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected] > > Ron, > > --- On Mon, 11/30/09, Ron Andrico <[email protected]> wrote: > > > From: Ron Andrico <[email protected]> > > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Terminology: brise > > To: [email protected], [email protected] > > Date: Monday, November 30, 2009, 4:44 AM > > > Sadly, most > > articles have an expiration date of say twenty years. > > David: > > As one who greatly values the historical > > research of many great > > scholars in my chosen field, I must > > gently offer a strong disagreement. > > Best, > > Ron Andrico > > Sorry Ron, but I have to agree with David. I'm pursuing my doctorate in early music performance right now. There's (thankfully!) no dissertation required for this degree, but I still have to write plenty of lengthy research papers. I'm not too bright myself, but I've learned enough not to cite too much material from before 1990 if'n I wants to get me some plenty good grades. I'm not saying whether this is good or bad, but that's the way it goes in academia right now. > > Chris > > > > > > > www.mignarda.com > > > Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 18:33:16 > > -0800 > > > To: [email protected] > > > From: [email protected] > > > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Terminology: > > brise > > > > > > I don't think the material in that > > article is complete and up to > > date. > > > For example, there was a perfectly > > good term for the broken style > > which > > > is Harpege. > > > It isn't clear at all what luthe > > means, it could me "unmeasured" or > > > refer to the separation of the bass > > and the treble, and so on. > > > Sadly, most articles have an > > expiration date of say twenty years. > > > dt > > > At 06:09 PM 11/29/2009, you wrote: > > > > > > Danny & all: > > > The article that best defines the > > terminology is > > > "Style brise, Style luthe," and the > > "Choses luthees", by David J. > > > Buch, The Musical Quarterly, Vol. > > 71, No. 1 (1985), pp. 52-67 > > > Best wishes, > > > Ron Andrico > > > [1]www.mignarda.com > > > > Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 15:22:58 > > -0800 > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > From: [email protected] > > > > Subject: [LUTE] Re: > > Terminology: brise > > > > > > > > The fact that it has not yet > > been traced back > > > > does not make it a modern term. > > Articles which > > > > say that it cannot be traced do > > not even have a > > > > footnote saying where they > > looked, they should > > > > have just said they could not > > find it and listed > > > > the sources. I doubt that all > > the sources have > > > > been searched for it. In > > addition, the term > > > > brisee means, among other > > things, plucked in the > > > > 17th century, so it must have > > been used to > > > > describe instruments like the > > harp and the lute. > > > > Dictionaries give plucked as a > > definition as > > > > early as ca1600. There may be > > even parallel > > > > compounds like "accents > > brisees" that people have > > > > not even looked for. Some of > > these may be related > > > > terms, such as cadence brisee > > which is quite > > > > early. I suspect there is a > > more than even chance > > > > an earlier useage of the term > > will surface, and > > > > then we can debate if luthe and > > brise are the same :) > > > > As far as the term luthe, it > > would be better if > > > > we can find out what the lute > > players called it > > > > as the harpsichordists may have > > used a different term. > > > > dt > > > > > > > > At 06:24 AM 11/29/2009, you > > wrote: > > > > >Yes, good point, "style > > brise" is a modern term. > > > > >It's better to use "style > > luthe" instead if we > > > > >really have to use anything > > at all. > > > > > > > > > >JL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message > > ----- From: "Mark Probert" > > > <[email protected]> > > > > >To: <[email protected]> > > > > >Sent: Sunday, November 29, > > 2009 10:34 AM > > > > >Subject: [LUTE] > > Terminology: brise > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >The recent thread on Saint > > Luc brought up the term "brise" (final > > > > >e-accute) that I had not > > read before. So I went to Groves and > > > found > > > > >that "Style brise" refers > > to a broken appeggiation style, which, > > > in > > > > >reference to early French > > Baroque lute music, I am familiar with. > > > > > > > > > >Interestingly, that term, > > "Style brise", can't be traced back > > > further > > > > >than 1928 and one La > > Laurencie's "Les luthistes" (Paris, 1928). > > > > >Apparently, back in the > > day, Couperin referred to the technique > > > as > > > > >'luthe'. Thing is, he was > > referring to harpsichordists using the > > > lute > > > > >style, not a lutenist using > > that style. > > > > > > > > > >So now we are describing a > > lute technique using a keyboard style > > > name > > > > >that was originally used to > > describe a lute style. Excellent! > > > > > > > > > >. mark > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >To get on or off this list > > see list information at > > > > >[2] http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________________________ > > > > > > Bing brings you maps, menus, and > > reviews organized in one place. > > > [3]Try it now. > > > > > > -- > > > > > > References > > > > > > 1. http://www.mignarda.com/ > > > 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > 3. > > http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurants&form=MFESRP&publ=WLHMTAG&crea= > > TEXT_MFESRP_Local_MapsMenu_Resturants_1x1 > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________________ > > > > Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM > > protection. [1]Sign up now. > > -- > > > > References > > > > 1. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141665/direct/01/ > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft's powerful SPAM protection. [1]Sign up now. -- References 1. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
