Dear Stuart, The answer is 3.5KG for this spec. Whether it's high or low tension is moot. I think it's fairly high for such a relatively small instrument: on a lute-like comparison I'd expect something closer to 2Kg But most of you mandolinoistas seem to think high tensions are the norm - but on what basis I don't know. Why don't you try doubled nylon on this course to give 2Kg per string - you'd need to put on nylon at 0.40mm - and see how double string playing with finger tips feels like now (may take a bit of time to adjust of course...)
I gave the formula is an earlier email Frequency is directly related to pitch. You need to be careful that you use consistent units. But the simplest way is to find a website that offers a string calculator and allows you to vary the parameters. I use a special slide rule which has the advantage of allowing numerous comparisons to be made visually all at once. rgds Martyn --- On Sun, 30/5/10, Stuart Walsh <[email protected]> wrote: From: Stuart Walsh <[email protected]> Subject: [LUTE] Re: baroque mandolins etc--- tensions and kgs? To: "Martyn Hodgson" <[email protected]> Cc: "Lute List" <[email protected]>, "EUGENE BRAIG IV" <[email protected]> Date: Sunday, 30 May, 2010, 12:06 > Dear Eugene, > > There is really is no difficulty here. The heart of the matter is that > tension needs to be related to string length, so that with similar > instruments, bigger ones (and used eg Dowland as said)) higher tension > than their smaller counterparts - see the earlier communication about > this. So for a small string length, like on the mandolino which is > around half the string length of a mean lute, a tension of as low as a > half is suggested for similar 'feel' ie 3Kg/2 = 1.5Kg (which is why I > suggested a trial at around this level). The converse is also the case > with large theorbos needing higher tensions than a mean lute. > > The modern 'classical' guitar is single strung (like some theorbos) and > can be played with a higher level of tension (as Stuart found out when > he tried single strings). > > I thought all this was common knowledge..... > > regards > > Martyn > > > No it's really interesting. I've always glazed over discussions of tensions and kgs. So how do you work out the string tension in kgs? Is it a rather baffling formula? For example, the second course of my little homemade instrument, with a string length of 37cms (or just a bit more) and with a Pyramid lute string , nylon 0.525 tuned to b' (A=440). Is that high tension or low tension? As a doubled course it feels very high tension indeed (iron bar). As a single course it feels just a little bit too light, but superficially at least, more amenable for fingerstyle play. Stuart > > > --- On Sun, 30/5/10, EUGENE BRAIG IV <[1][email protected]> wrote: > > From: EUGENE BRAIG IV <[2][email protected]> > Subject: [LUTE] Re: baroque mandolins etc--- tensions and kgs? > To: "Lute List" <[3][email protected]> > Date: Sunday, 30 May, 2010, 5:26 > > I don't know why tension should have much to do with punteado vs. > plectrum. I also certainly would not consider approx. 3.0-4.0 kg > per > string (as I use on my mandolino) "high" tension. Guitars are often > much higher, modern classical or even 19th c. It's not even far > from > what some players use on lutes. On his string calculator page, > Arto cites 3.0 kg as his standard and 4.0 as preferred on archlute. > Eugene > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Stuart Walsh <[1][4][email protected]> > Date: Friday, May 28, 2010 6:13 pm > Subject: [LUTE] Re: baroque mandolins etc--- tensions and kgs? > To: David van Ooijen <[2][5][email protected]> > Cc: Lute List <[3][6][email protected]> > > David van Ooijen wrote: > > > On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 9:17 PM, Stuart Walsh > > <[4][7][email protected]> wrote: > > > > > >> Is there a simple explanation, somewhere, of string tensions > > and what 3kg or > > >> 7 kg etc means and what is the significance of it. I've never > > understood>> what it's all about. > > >> > > > > > > I wrote this some years ago, so I could understand what it was > > all about: > > > > > > - Calculating String Tensions > > > Explaining the why and how of calculating strings for lutes. > > > > > > > [5][8]http://home.planet.nl/~ooije006/david/writings/stringtension_f.ht m > > > > > Thank you for this. I read it as carefully as I could! > > > > To be honest, I got as far as "the frequency of a string > > [frequency=pitch?] is directly related [=is?] the square root of > > its > > tension." and a sort of filter kicks in. > > A bit like when a plumber comes to fix something (at great > > expense) and > > explains all the minute details when I just want to know whether > > the > > toilet will flush or not. > > > > But what you say confirms (if I've understood you) what I > > thought about > > high tension stringing, playing with nails (plectrum) etc and > > that maybe > > old instruments were more lightly constructed with strings > > at lower > > tension, needing a gentler mode of playing. > > > > And so this is the problem with tiny instruments like the > > mandolino > > where the strings are inevitably (?) going to be high tension - > > how can > > they be fingerstyle/punteado instruments rather than plectrum > > instruments (even if some of the music for them looks - > > superficially? - > > as if it can't be played with a plectrum) > > > > > > Stuart > > > > (not a plectrum player) > -- > To get on or off this list see list information at > [6][9]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > -- > > References > > 1. [10]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] > 2. [11]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] om > 3. [12]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] > 4. [13]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] > 5. [14]http://home.planet.nl/~ooije006/david/writings/stringtension_f.htm > 6. [15]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > -- References 1. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] 2. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] 3. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] 4. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] 5. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] 6. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] 7. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] 8. http://home.planet.nl/~ooije006/david/writings/stringtension_f.htm 9. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 10. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] 11. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] 12. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] 13. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] 14. http://home.planet.nl/~ooije006/david/writings/stringtension_f.htm 15. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
