The "distinct" to which I was referring was more regarding standard tunings (in mandora, apparently most often an "open"-like series of 4ths and 5ths) and bodies of dedicated repertoire. Obviously, the general morphologies of the instruments and origins in time are pretty similar and probably influenced each other. Tyler's writings also touch a bit on the former points of distinctness.
The relationship to earlier versions of lute is perhaps a bit more obvious to me in mandolino than in northerly mandore. This is evident in both the consistent stringing in courses of paired strings and in the somewhat more linear approach to tuning. I don't know if this indicates mandore was in actuality a later diversion from mandolino, but I suppose it might. Regarding technique of the Italianate things, I simply wish more was known of the era before written methods began to appear. Without evidence to the contrary, I suppose anything is possible. Best, Eugene ----- Original Message ----- From: Stuart Walsh <[email protected]> Date: Tuesday, June 1, 2010 1:14 pm Subject: [LUTE] Re: baroque mandolins etc---not forgetting the French mandore To: EUGENE BRAIG IV <[email protected]> Cc: Lute List <[email protected]> > EUGENE BRAIG IV wrote: > > Indeed, but the late renaissance mandore was > distinct from Italian > > mandolino. > > > Not that distinct Eugene. Late Renaissance = Early > Baroque? The Ulm MS > (which I would really like to get hold of) is 1625-30 and there > are > sources of music throughout the 17th century. (info from Tyler's book) > > Aren't we simply talking about one instrument: a small, lute- > like > instrument with with gut strings which in France was called the > 'mandore' and in Italy, the 'mandola/mandolino'? And for both, > there are > references to the top string as at g''. And even, sometimes the > mandore > was double-strung. So: same sort of size, shape, string material. > > But the French version was in a different tuning (with variants) > and > seems to have lost popularity in the 17th century whereas the > Italian > version in the fourths tuning (from the 17th century) has never > quite > died out. > > Unlike the mandola/mandolino, there are contemporary > accounts of how > the mandore was played: with a quill, with a quill tied to a > finger > (very odd?), with a single finger (presumably dedillo style) and > plain > fingerstyle. And there are descriptions of how loud it can sound > (e.g. > dominating a consort of lutes - Trichet). > > It strikes me as a bit odd that an evidently popular instrument > typically with single strings should get them doubled as it > became more > Italianate. Could the single-string instruments be of lighter > construction? But mandolini are incredibly light anyway. Would > the > double stringing of courses make the instruments louder. But > contemporary accounts suggest that the mandore was loud. Would > the > double stringing favour a particular way of playing the strings? > > Lastly, Tyler quotes a French source from 1690 saying that some > mandore > players used a plectrum tied to the index finger for the first > course > and the thumb on the lower courses. Is it possible that some > mandola/mandolino music was played in some sort of way with both > quill > and fingers? > > > Stuart > > > > > > > > > Stuart > > > > > > I know of one very early mandolino built for a single high > > string, but all the other instruments and > iconography of which I'm > > aware imply a high course of paired strings > for mandolino. In the 19th > > c., single-strung mandolini Milanese and > Lombardi began to appear, but > > they are comfortably post baroque. > > Best, > > Eugene > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Stuart Walsh <[email protected]> > > Date: Monday, May 31, 2010 12:34 pm > > Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: baroque mandolins > etc---not forgetting the > > French mandore > > To: Martyn Hodgson <[email protected]> > > Cc: Lute List <[email protected]>, > EUGENE BRAIG IV > > <[email protected]> > > > Martyn Hodgson wrote: > > > > Very good point about > uniformity of trebles. > > > Did mandolinos never have > > > > single trebles? > > > > > > > > > > > > > The French mandore from the late > 16th century has single > > > strings. > > > According to Tyler, the lost, earliest, > tutor from Leroy (1585) > > > is for > > > a four-string instrument (source: Trichet, > writing years later). > > > Praetorius, Chancy and Mersenne clearly > depict a four-string > > > instrument > > > and some surviving examples are > illustrated in Baines. > > > > > > So here is a tiny instrument, just like > the later mandolino, but > > > tuned > > > differently and seemingly a successful, > popular instrument for > > > quite a > > > long time. And with single strings. > > > > > > Stuart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The splitting horn was > certainly a known > > > tool but as to the uniformity > > > > of the resultant gut > I've no knowledge - > > > perhaps it was even better > > > > though? - We know that > at the beginning of > > > the 16thC (whole) gut > > > > strings were naturally > slightly conical > > > (mentioned in Capirola f 3v as > > > > the thicker end and > the thinner end) - > > > perhaps this splitting horn was > > > > an early form of > industrial tool to ensure > > > uniformity?.....> > > > > rgds > > > > > > > > Martyn > > > > --- On Mon, 31/5/10, > EUGENE BRAIG IV > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > From: > EUGENE BRAIG IV > > > > <[email protected]>> Subject: > > > [LUTE] Re: baroque mandolins etc--- > tensions and kgs? > > > > To: "Lute List" > > > > <[email protected]>> Date: > > > Monday, 31 May, 2010, 15:29 > > > > > > > > I > found the document to > > > which I'd referred. Not as useful as I'd > > > > > hoped. There are a > > > pair of receipts issued to the Pieta by two > > > > > different suppliers in > > > Venice that were discovered by Micky White > > > > and > > > > made > available in > > > 2002. One was issued by Selles and spans > > > > > March-February 1745, and > > > the other by Montagnana spanning > > > > June-February > > > > > 1760. There isn't > > > enough detail to be useful in determining string > > > > > gauges. A typical > > > entry will read something like "un > > > > maso > cantini di mandolino" > > > followed by the sale price. > > > > I'm > just a little > > > skeptical about the usefulness of > splitting or > > > > > grinding strings in this > > > context, but would love to hear of somebody > > > > > experimenting with > > > such. My experience with "polished" > gut (that > > > > > fragments the linear > > > integrity of gut fibers) is that it is > > > > extremely > > > > > short-lived at fine > > > gauges. Gut, as an organic fiber, > tends to be a > > > > > little inconsistent in > > > ways that can sometimes make for questionable > > > > > intonation along its > > > length. Of course, this is often > cited as one > > > > > reason why lutes and > > > guitars carried single chanterelles. > The body > > > > of > > > > > evidence shows that > > > mandolini typically strung the highest > course in > > > > > pairs. I would think > > > splitting a fine gut string would exacerbate > > > > > issues of inconsistency. > > > > Best, > > > > Eugene > > > > ----- > Original Message ---- > > > - > > > > > From: Martyn Hodgson > > > > <[1][email protected]>> Date: Monday, May 31, 2010 2:51 > > am > > > > > Subject: [LUTE] Re: > > > baroque mandolins etc--- tensions and kgs? > > > > To: > Lute List > > > <[2][email protected]>, EUGENE > BRAIG IV > > > > > <[3][email protected]>,> > "davide.rebuffa"> > > > > <[4][email protected]>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank > > > you for this. > > > > > > > > > > > My > > > original enquiry was not so much about > > > > > > conducting a survey of what > > > > > > > > tensions modern manolino preffered but > rather to > > > > > > cooment on Timmerman's > > > > > > > > recotrding and ask what's the historical > evdidence> > > > > for string tensions > > > > > > on > > > these instruments. As far as I'm aware, > the only > > > > > > evidence mentioned > > > > > > has > > > been a catalogue of strings for the > Ospedale in > > > > > > Vivaldi's time - do > > > > > > we > > > know anything about these?. > > > > > > > > > > > I'm > > > also interested that you use lower > tensions on > > > > > > larger instruments > > > > > > (even > > > as large as 95cm), and would be grateful for > > > > > > your evidence to > > > > > > > > support this practice. > > > > > > > > > > > regards > > > > > > > > > > > Martyn > > > > > > > > > > > --- On > > > Sun, 30/5/10, davide.rebuffa > > > > > > > > > <[5][email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: > davide.rebuffa> > > > > > > > > <[6][email protected]>> > Subject: [LUTE] Re: > > baroque mandolins etc--- tensions and kgs? > > > > > > > > To: "Lute List" > > > > > > > > <[7][email protected]>, "EUGENE > BRAIG IV" > > > > > > > > > <[8][email protected]>> > > > > > > Date: > Sunday, 30 May, 2010, 15:42 > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Martyn > > > > > > I > > > agree with Eugene about string tension and right > > > > > > hand position. > > > > > > ("with > > > my pinky near to the bridge of a > > > > > > mandolino, my m, i, and > > > p are > > > > > > much > > > nearer to the relative center of the > > > > > > vibrating string length than > > > > > > they > > > would be on a baroque lute") > > > > > > I play > > > with quite high tension and so do my > > > > > > students and does Mauro > > > > > > > > Squillante who plays the same copy of a 6 ocurse > > > > > > mandolino made for us > > > > > > by an > > > italian maker. > > > > > > I use > > > 0.40 ( gut or nylgut) for the g top string at > > > > > > 415 hz on a short > > > > > > string > > > lenght mandolini , 31.8 cm (originals and > > > > > > copies from north > > > > > > Italy) > > > > > > the > > > same 0.40 or 0.38 on original > > > > > > mandolini with longer string > > > > > > lenght > > > made in central Italy where the standard > > > > > > corista was lower ( top > > > > > > string > > > in f , 390 hz ) - a 5 course mandolino by > > > > > > Smorsone (1721 ) > > > > > > > > diapason cm 33.8 cm > > > > > > > > and 4 course by Franchi, diapason > 34.9 cm > > > > > > (1727 which has single top > > > > > > string). > > > > > > Theese > > > instruments with longer string lenght, > > > > > > narrow and long body > > > > > > > > project wery well even with low tensions > but I > > > > > > woudn't say the same > > > > > > about > > > the mandolini made in Milano at the end of > > > > > > the XVIIIth century > > > > > > with > > > larger body which need higher > tension, I > > > > > > suspect this is because > > > > > > they > > > were already conceived to be played with the > > > > > > plectrum which gives > > > > > > a > > > softer sound. > > > > > > I > > > might be wrong but my feelings and my experience > > > > > > are that I need > > > > > > higher > > > tension on small instruments an quite lowe > > > > > on > big instruments > > > > > > like > > > calichon or theorbo and baroque guitars, but > > > > > > not that low on the > > > > > > > > baroque lute. > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > Davide > > > > > > ----- > > > Original Message ----- From: "EUGENE BRAIG IV" > > > > > > > > <[1][9][email protected]>> > > > > To: "Lute List" > <[2][10][email protected]>> > > > > Sent: > > > Sunday, May 30, 2010 2:43 PM > > > > > > > > Subject: [LUTE] Re: baroque mandolins etc-- > - > > > > > > tensions and kgs? > > > > > > > > > Of course it is (common knowledge, > > > > > > that is, at least relatively > > > > > > so). > > > > > > > > > But with modern classical guitars > > > > > > sometimes strung to 9 kg > > > or so, > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > single string functions at > as high or > > > > > > higher a tension than the > > > > > > paired > > > > > > > > > course. Also, fingerpicking > > > > > > steel-string guitars is > > > not uncommon, > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > even lightly strung, they > tend to be > > > > > > even higher tension. > > > > > > > > > Regarding the act of > plucking itself, > > > > > > the feeling of stiffness > > > > > > imparted > > > > > > > > > by short scale length > doesn't hinder > > > > > > after a little > > > practice. If > > > > > > > > > anything, it increases speed and > > > > > > accuracy because the > > > strings are > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > consistently close to where they > > > > > > started. It's a > > > similar effect to > > > > > > > > > plucking very, very near the > bridge,> > > > > as is now common on baroque > > > > > > > > > instruments. Because > of scale > > > > > > length alone, with my > > > pinky near to > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > bridge of a mandolino, my m, > i, and p > > > > > > are much nearer to the > > > > > > relative > > > > > > > > > center of the vibrating > string length > > > > > > than they would be on a > > > > > > baroque > > > > > > > > > lute. I don't play d-minor > > > > > > lute, but I don't mind > > > noodling on > > > > > > other > > > > > > > > > folks' on occasion. Plucking > > > > > > near the bridge of a d- > > > minor lute > > > > > > feels > > > > > > > > > only slightly different to me. > > > > > I > suppose that may be > > > only because > > > > > > I'm > > > > > > > > > so accustomed to plucking > mandolino now. > > > > > > > > > Plucking a mandolino using > the finest > > > > > > functional strings that are > > > > > > > > > readily available isn't that much > > > > > > different with minimal > > > practice.> > > > > Not > > > > > > > > > many yet, but as mentioned > earlier,> > > > > there are a fair number of > > > > > > > > > recordings that demonstrate so > > > > > > nicely: Tyler, O'Dette, > > > Wedemeier,> > > > > etc. > > > > > > > > > I'm excited to hear another such > > > > > > recording is pending > > > with the > > > > > > > > > scholarly Davide Rebuffa > doing the > > > > > > plucking.> > > I think it's > possible that > > > > > > the high tessitura of > > > such things may in > > > > > > > > > part be why chamber music and > > > > > > concerti make up such a higher > > > > > > relative > > > > > > > > > proportion of extant baroque > > > > > > mandolino repertoire, > > > where that for > > > > > > lute > > > > > > > > > favors solos. Not only > does the > > > > > > expanded bass lend > > > itself to a > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > satisfying self > accompaniment on > > > > > > lute, but all the previously > > > > > > discussed > > > > > > > > > factors trend to add up to better > > > > > > projection, a better > > > ability to > > > > > > "cut" > > > > > > > > > above accompanying instruments. > > > > > > Also, I am aware of > > > absolutely no > > > > > > > > > evidence one way or the > other, but I > > > > > > suspect nail use may > > > have been > > > > > > > > > more common to mandolino > players than > > > > > d- > minor lute players. > > > > > > > > > ...And by the early > classical and the > > > > > > era of published mandolin > > > > > > > > > methods, the burgeoning > popularity of > > > > > > the Neapolitan type, the > > > > > > music of > > > > > > > > > Hoffmann, etc. it DOES > appear that > > > > > > plectrum play on 4th-tuned > > > > > > > > > mandolini was becoming common. > > > > > > > > > Really, before losing > oneself in > > > > > > bewilderment, one should > > > pick up a > > > > > > 5- > > > > > > > > > or 6-course mandolino and > pluck a few > > > > > > notes with the > > > fingers. It's > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > so bad. > > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > > > > Eugene > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > From: Martyn Hodgson > > > > > > > > > <[3][11][email protected]> > > > > > > > Date: Sunday, May 30, > > > 2010 4:09 am > > > > > > > > > Subject: [LUTE] Re: baroque > mandolins> > > > > etc--- tensions and kgs? > > > > > > > > > To: Lute List > > > > > > > > <[4][12][email protected]>, EUGENE > BRAIG IV > > > > > > > > > <[5][13][email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Eugene, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is > really> > > > > is no difficulty here. > > > The heart of > > > > > > > > > > the matter is that > > > > > > > > > > tension > needs to > > > > > be > related to string > > > length, so > > > > > > > > > > that with similar > > > > > > > > > > instruments, > > > > > > bigger ones (and used eg > > > Dowland as > > > > > > > > > > said)) higher tension > > > > > > > > > > than their > > > > > > smaller counterparts - > > > see the earlier > > > > > > > > > > communication about > > > > > > > > > > this. So > for a > > > > > > small string length, > > > like on the > > > > > > > > > > mandolino which is > > > > > > > > > > around > half the > > > > > > string length of a mean > > > lute, a > > > > > > > > > > tension of as low as a > > > > > > > > > > half is > suggested> > > > > for similar 'feel' ie > > > 3Kg/2 = > > > > > > > > > > 1.5Kg (which is why I > > > > > > > > > > > suggested a trial > > > > > at > around this level). The > > > > > > > > > > converse is also the case > > > > > > > > > > with large > > > > > > theorbos needing higher > > > tensions than a > > > > > > > > > > mean lute. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The modern > > > > > > 'classical' guitar is > > > single strung > > > > > > > > > > (like some theorbos) and > > > > > > > > > > can be played > > > > > > with a higher level of > > > tension (as > > > > > > > > > > Stuart found out when > > > > > > > > > > he tried > single> > > > > strings). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I > thought all > > > > > > this was common knowledge..... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Martyn > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, > > > > > > 30/5/10, EUGENE BRAIG IV > > > > > > > > > > > <[6][14][email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: > > > > > > EUGENE BRAIG IV > > > <[7][15][email protected]>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [LUTE] Re: > > > baroque mandolins > > > > > > > > > > etc--- tensions and kgs? > > > > > > > > > > > To: > > > > > > "Lute List" > > > > <[8][16][email protected]>> > > > Date: > > > > > > Sunday, 30 May, 2010, 5:26 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I > don't know why tension > > > > should> > > > > > > have much to do with > punteado vs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > plectrum. I also > > > certainly> > > > > > > would > not consider approx. > > > 3.0-4.0 kg > > > > > > > > > > per > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > string (as I use on my > > > mandolino)> > > > > > > "high" > tension.> > Guitars are often > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > much higher, modern > > > classical or > > > > > > > > > > even 19th c. It's > not even far > > > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what some players use on > > > > > > > > > > lutes. On his string > > > > > > calculator page, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Arto cites 3.0 kg as his > > > standard> > > > > > > and > 4.0 as preferred on archlute. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Eugene > > > > > > > > > > ----- > Original Message ---- > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Stuart Walsh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <[1][9][17][email protected]> Date: > > > > > > > > > > Friday, May 28, 2010 6:13 pm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [LUTE] Re: baroque > > > > > > > > > > mandolins etc--- tensions > and kgs? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: David van Ooijen > > > > > > > > > > > <[2][10][18][email protected]>> > > > > > > > > > Cc: Lute List > > > > > > > > > <[3][11][19][email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > > > David van Ooijen wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, May 28, 2010 > > > at 9:17 > > > > > > > > > > PM, Stuart Walsh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <[4][12][20][email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Is there a simple > > > > > > > > > > explanation, somewhere, of > string> > > > > tensions > > > > > > > > > > > > and what 3kg or > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> 7 kg etc means and > > > what is > > > > > > > > > > the significance of it. > I've never > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > understood>> what it's > > > all about. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wrote this some > > > years ago, > > > > > > > > > > so I could understand what > it was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > all about: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Calculating String > > > Tensions> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Explaining the why > > > and how of > > > > > > > > > > calculating strings for lutes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [5][13][21]http://home.planet.nl/~ooije006/david/writings/stringtension> > > _f.htm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for > > > this. I > > > > > > > > > > read it as carefully as I could! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To be honest, I got as > > > far as > > > > > > > > > > "the frequency of a string > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [frequency=pitch?] is > > > directly> > > > > > > > related [=is?] the square > > > root of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tension." and a sort > > > of filter > > > > > > > > > > kicks in. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A bit like when a > > > plumber comes > > > > > > > > > > to fix something (at great > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > expense) and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > explains all the > > > minute details > > > > > > > > > > when I just want to know whether > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toilet will flush or not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But what you say confirms > > > > > > > > > > (if I've understood > you) what I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thought about > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > high tension > > > stringing, playing > > > > > > > > > > with nails (plectrum) etc and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that maybe > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > old instruments were more > > > > > > > > > > lightly constructed with strings > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at lower > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tension, needing a > > > gentler mode > > > > > > > > > > of playing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And so this is the > > > > > > > > > > problem with tiny > instruments like the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mandolino> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > where the strings are > > > > > > > > > > inevitably (?) going to be high > > > > > > tension - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how can > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > they be fingerstyle/punteado > > > > > > > > > > instruments rather than plectrum > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > instruments (even if > > > some of > > > > > > > > > > the music for them looks - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > superficially? - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as if it can't be > > > played with > > > > > > > > > > a plectrum) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stuart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (not a plectrum player) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > To get > on or off > > > > > > this list see list > > > information at > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [6][14][22]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > References > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [15][23]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=s.wa...@ntlworl>> > d.com > > > > > > 2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [16][24]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=davidvanooi...@gma> > > il.com > > > > > > > > > > 3. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [17][25]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]>> > th.edu > > > > > > 4. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [18][26]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=s.wa...@ntlworl>> > d.com > > > > > > > > > 5. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [19][27]http://home.planet.nl/~ooije006/david/writings/stringtension>> > _f.htm > > > > > > 6. > > > > > > > > [20][28]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > References> > > > > > > > > > > 1. > > > > > > > > > > > > > [29]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] 2. > > > > > > > > > > [30]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]>> du > > > > > > 3. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [31]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=hodgsonmar...@yahoo>> > .co.uk > > > > > 4. > > > > > > > > > > [32]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]>> > > 5. > > > > > > > > > > > > > [33]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] 6. > > > > > > > > > > [34]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]>> > 7. > > > > > > > > > > > > > [35]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] 8. > > > > > > > > > > [36]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]>> du > > > > > > 9. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [37]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]>> > 10. > > > > > > > > > > [38]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=davidvanooi...@gmai>> > l.com > > > > > > 11. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [39]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]>> > 12. > > > > > > > > > > [40]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]>> > > 13. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [41]http://home.planet.nl/~ooije006/david/writings/stringtension_f.htm>> > 14. [42]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > > > 15. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [43]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]>> > 16. > > > > > > > > > > [44]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=davidvanooi...@gmai>> > l.com > > > > > > 17. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [45]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]>> > 18. > > > > > > > > > > [46]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]>> > > 19. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [47]http://home.planet.nl/~ooije006/david/writings/stringtension_f.htm>> > 20. [48]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > > -- > > > > To get on or off this > list see list > > > information at > > > > > [49]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute- > > > admin/index.html> > > > > -- > > > > > > > > References > > > > > > > > 1. > > > > > > http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]>> > 2. > > > http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]> > > > 3. > > > > http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]> 4. > > > http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=davide.rebu...@fastwebnet.> it > > > > 5. > > > > > > http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=davide.rebu...@fastwebnet.> > it> 6. > > > http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=davide.rebu...@fastwebnet.> it > > > > 7. > > > > > > http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]>> 8. > http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] > > > > 9. > > > > http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]> 10. > > > http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]> > > > 11. > > > > > > http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]>> > 12. > > > http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]> > > > 13. > > > > http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]> 14. > > > http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]> > > 15. > > > > http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]> 16. > > > http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]> > > > 17. > > > > http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]>> 18. > > > http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]> > > > 19. > > > > http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]>> 20. > http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] > > > > 21. > > > > http://home.planet.nl/~ooije006/david/writings/stringtension> 22. > > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute- > admin/index.html> > > 23. > > > > http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]>> 24. > http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=davidvanooi...@gma > > > > 25. > > > > http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]>> 26. > http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] > > > > 27. > > > > http://home.planet.nl/~ooije006/david/writings/stringtension_f.htm>> 28. > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > 29. > > > > http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]> 30. > > > http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]> > > > 31. > > > > > > http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]>> > 32. > > > http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]> > > > 33. > > > > http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]> 34. > > > http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]> > > 35. > > > > http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]> 36. > > > http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]> > > > 37. > > > > http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]>> 38. > > > http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]> > > > 39. > > > > http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]>> 40. > http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] > > > > 41. > > > > http://home.planet.nl/~ooije006/david/writings/stringtension_f.htm>> 42. > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > 43. > > > > http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]>> 44. > > > http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]> > > > 45. > > > > http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]>> 46. > http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] > > > > 47. > > > > http://home.planet.nl/~ooije006/david/writings/stringtension_f.htm>> 48. > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > 49. > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin > > > > -- > > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > > >
