Actually, nylon fishing lines are perfectly adequate...if you like nylon and don't mind buying decent quality fishing line.
Best, Eugene _______________________________________________________________________ From: Laura Maschi [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 9:44 AM To: EUGENE BRAIG IV Cc: [email protected]; Miguel de Olaso Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Carbon strings? Thanks for the help. In fact, I refer to carbon lines. I know that nylon lines are not good enough for this. I think the best will be just trying first with one or two strings, and then decide. I normally use nylgut, but need a quick replacement in case I don't get "real" strings soon enough when I need them. Cost and availability are strong reasons too! thanks all again for the help regards, Laura 2010/6/9 EUGENE BRAIG IV <[1][email protected]> Be careful to be just a little more specific on this subject. The generic description of "fishing line" is not sufficient to arrive at appropriate instrument strings. I can't find enough detail to determine the material you're using, Paul, but I would guess it's nylon from your descriptions of quantity and price. Most monofilament fishing lines are nylon and of different density from fluorocarbon, the different materials requiring different diameters at any given pitch and scale length. To dabble in fishing lines as strings, use a string calculator to estimate appropriate diameters and be certain you know what material you're buying. Again, almost anything labeled simply "monofilament" will be some variant of nylon. If a monofilament is made of fluorocarbon (what instrumentalists often simply call "carbon"), the package will say so: i.e., packaging will state "fluorocarbon", "100% fluorocarbon", or similar. As Paul mentioned, any braided, Kevlar, or "fusion" fishing lines won't really be appropriate as instrument strings. You can even find fluorocarbon-coated nylon, which I would also avoid. Again, read the package if you intend to pluck fishing line! Nylon monofilament fishing lines can be really cheap. Fluorocarbon is much more expensive than nylon monofilament, but still much, much cheaper than gut or even fluorocarbon packaged as individual strings by musical instrument string manufacturers. Unfortunately, to find such synthetics in appropriate diameters for most instruments' lower courses (say the 3rd and below in many cases and even 2nd in some), you'll probably have to buy designated instrument strings. I've had a little less time with fluorocarbon lines than nylon. However, as I'd mentioned before, I've had plain bad luck with Berkley's "Vanish" brand fluorocarbon which tends to fray very quickly along its whole length when under modest sustained tension. It will begin to look rather hairy and loses consistent intonation too quickly. I've had much better luck with P-Line CFX flourocarbon fly fishing leader. I've found most nylon monofilament fishing lines by brand-name manufacturers to be pretty similar. Berkley's nylon monofilament (branded "Trilene") seems more dependable than their fluorocarbon as instrument strings. Best, Eugene ----- Original Message ----- From: Laura Maschi <[2][email protected]> Date: Wednesday, June 9, 2010 12:12 am Subject: [LUTE] Re: Carbon strings? To: "[3][email protected]" <[4][email protected]> > > > > De: Laura Maschi <[5][email protected]> > > Fecha: 9 de junio de 2010 1:03:30 GMT-03:00 > > Para: Paul Kieffer <[6][email protected]> > > Cc: Miguel de Olaso <[7][email protected]> > > Asunto: Re: [LUTE] Re: Carbon strings? > > > > > Hi Paul, can you recommend any fishing line maker? > > Which brands have you trAed? And is ir better the line or the > leader > > type? > > So far I have only the reference for 'seaguar' a japanese > maker, > > that unfortunately is very difficult to get here in > Argentina. > > Suggestions welcomed! > > Thanks > > Laura > > > > Enviado desde mi iPod > > > > El 08/06/2010, a las 21:07, Paul Kieffer > <[8][email protected] > > > escribiA^3: > > > >> I've been using carbon fishing line for some time now > for just the > >> top > >> 'g' string on my 10 course lute. It works > tremendously well, lasts > >> incredibly long, and is about 1000 times cheaper than > "lute string." > >> > >> If you live in any big or medium sized city, you should > be able to > >> find > >> a store with the right diameter fishing line. > >> > >> They have the perfect diameters for the top string, > I've tried > >> anything > >> from .36 mm to .42 mm. > >> > >> Make sure you don't get wound fishing line, because it > won't > >> stretch, > >> of course. It just comes apart. > >> > >> Just yesterday I bought 140 meters of fishing line at > .41mm > >> diameter. > >> It was around $20 Canadian. This new line has > been on my lute for a > >> day now, and it sounds and works amazing. > >> > >> I break the top string quite a bit, and having 140 > meters of the top > >> string is comforting. (If you're in a concert and > the g string > >> breaks...what are you going to do...go backstage and > put another gut > >> string on it, and then wait for it to settle in and > then break > >> again? > >> Or you can just unravel some fishing line, stick it on > there, and > >> bam. > >> It doesn't need any time to stretch or get settle > really.)>> > >> IMO, it's much better to go with this option, than it > is to order > >> strings online from expensive sources (*and many times > unreliable).>> Also, when you order that stuff online, you > pay huge shipping costs, > >> and you have to wait 1-2 weeks (or 4 or 5). I've > wasted a lot of > >> money > >> ordering actual lute strings when my top string would break. > >> > >> I've had very bad experiences with gut when it comes to > the top g > >> string... it's just not worth > the effort or money if you ask me. > >> > >> I was weary at first about using fishing line, but when > I put it > >> on the > >> lute and started playing, it was a miracle. And > then I just keep > >> the > >> remaining 139 meters of string in the case... > >> > >> .40 mm tends to be on the larger side for fishing line. > but almost > >> all > >> outdoor and fishing stores have it (and anything from > .38-.48). > >> They > >> will probably think you are some fly fishing expert > >> > >> Paul > >> > >> On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 6:09 PM, Eugene C. Braig IV > <[1][9][email protected] > >> > > >> wrote: > >> > >> Not all fluorocarbon fishing lines make > good strings. I've had > >> pretty poor > >> luck with Berkley's house brand of > fluorocarbon fishing line. > >> Under > >> continuous tension (e.g., as an instrument > string), I have found > >> it > >> to fray > >> and lose intonation along its length. > I've had much better luck > >> with P-Line > >> CFX flourocarbon fly fishing leader > material. It's much more > >> expensive than > >> large spools of line, but still much less > expensive than an > >> equivalent > >> length of gut string. Most of the > fluorocarbon made for fishing > >> you'll find > >> will be ca. 0.5 mm or thinner. > >> Best, > >> Eugene > >> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: [2][10][email protected] > >> [mailto:[3][11][email protected]] On > >>> Behalf Of Stathis Skandalidis > >>> Sent: Monday, June 07, 2010 5:04 PM > >>> To: [4][12][email protected] > >> > >>> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Carbon strings? > >>> > >>> Dear Arto, > >>> according to Makoto Tsuruta and his intuitive site > >>> > [1][5][13]http://www.crane.gr.jp/CRANE_Strings/strings_linesE.html>> it's the > >>> same material. > >>> As I am living on an island, it is quite easy at least > for me to > >> find > >>> fishing line. > >>> Regardless your place of residence there are many on- > line shops > >> where > >>> you could order it from. > >>> A 25 m spool Seaguar Grand Max fishing line 0.405mm > diameter costs > >>> around 10 euros. That spool could give you 3 dozens of > strings for > >> a > >>> g-lute, not a bad business at all! > >>> Stathis > >>> > >> > __________________________________________________________________>>> > >>> From: wikla <[6][14][email protected]> > >>> To: [7][15][email protected] > >>> Sent: Mon, June 7, 2010 11:31:23 PM > >>> Subject: [LUTE] Carbon strings? > >>> Dearest lute gang, > >>> one question about the "carbon" string material (=high > density>>> hydrocarbon > >>> polymer): > >>> I have been using it much, but I have always ordered > it from lute > >>> string > >>> makers. But as far as I know, this material was > developed for a > >> non > >>> lute > >>> world (fishing?). So, does anyone here really know, if > the lute > >> string > >>> "carbon" and the fishing line "carbon" are the same > thing and the > >> same > >>> quality? If yes, please let me know, where to get this > quality>> "fishing > >>> carbon"? I guess the fishers order their stuff in > 100's of meters, > >> and > >>> to > >>> me a couple of meters is the maximum per one string. > In the > >> fisher's > >>> way, > >>> those "unpackaged" strings could be _very_ economical > to us > >> lutenists? > >>> Arto > >>> To get on or off this list see list information at > >>> [2][8][16]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute- > admin/index.html>>> > >>> -- > >>> > >>> References > >>> > >>> 1. > [9][17]http://www.crane.gr.jp/CRANE_Strings/strings_linesE.html>>> 2. [10][18]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html > >> > >> -- > >> > >> References > >> > >> 1. mailto:[19][email protected] > >> 2. mailto:[20][email protected] > >> 3. mailto:[21][email protected] > >> 4. mailto:[22][email protected] > >> 5. [23]http://www.crane.gr.jp/CRANE_Strings/strings_linesE.html > >> 6. mailto:[24][email protected] > >> 7. mailto:[25][email protected] > >> 8. [26]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html > >> 9. [27]http://www.crane.gr.jp/CRANE_Strings/strings_linesE.html > >> 10. [28]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html > >> > > -- -- References 1. mailto:[email protected] 2. mailto:[email protected] 3. mailto:[email protected] 4. mailto:[email protected] 5. mailto:[email protected] 6. mailto:[email protected] 7. mailto:[email protected] 8. mailto:[email protected] 9. mailto:[email protected] 10. mailto:[email protected] 11. mailto:[email protected] 12. mailto:[email protected] 13. http://www.crane.gr.jp/CRANE_Strings/strings_linesE.html 14. mailto:[email protected] 15. mailto:[email protected] 16. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute- 17. http://www.crane.gr.jp/CRANE_Strings/strings_linesE.html 18. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html 19. mailto:[email protected] 20. mailto:[email protected] 21. mailto:[email protected] 22. mailto:[email protected] 23. http://www.crane.gr.jp/CRANE_Strings/strings_linesE.html 24. mailto:[email protected] 25. mailto:[email protected] 26. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html 27. http://www.crane.gr.jp/CRANE_Strings/strings_linesE.html 28. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
