Just to be clear, I didn't say
"Vivaldi generally did not take into account individual instrumental
requirements in his compositions and that accordingly most of his
compositions were played on any instrument to hand"
I mean, why would I say that? Did I say that and space it out? Holy
cow.
After all, the celli concerti are very idiomatic, for example.
Side note: Vivaldi was primarily an Opera composer--he claimed over
90--but most work is on the concertos.
Many things yet to be dicovered in Vivaldi.
I just don't happen to agree with some Vivaldi scholarship--some of it
is very good, of course. Simple. Square peg reasoning for the concertos
in the matter of range and playability.
I think I understand the terms and the clefs. I just don't agree that
they must mean something else depending on the theory of the piece. I
don't think claiming that I don't understand the clefs is a valid
argument; just tell me what they mean.
As for Violone, don't agree. To many instruments and paintings survive.
Too many varied references.
Besides, why would Vivaldi use the term cello and violone in the same
piece? (Good trivia question)
As for the banjo, well, hmmm. How is that different from modern
strings?
dt
What is the evidence for your assertion that Vivaldi generally did
not take into account individual instrumental requirements in his
compositions and that accordingly most of his compositions were
played on any instrument to hand?
Of course you can play RV93 on the banjo if that takes your fancy
but that wasn't the question originally posed, which was: 'what is
the instrument most likely to have played the leuto part in RV93'
(ie not 'what instruments can possibly play the notes of this
part?').
You also misunderstand the contemporary use of different clefs and
of various flutes and of the nomenclature 'violone' which by did
not generally mean a double bass instrument.....
MH
--- On Wed, 5/1/11, David Tayler <[email protected]> wrote:
From: David Tayler <[email protected]>
Subject: [LUTE] Re: RV93 - which instrument?
To: "lute-cs.dartmouth.edu" <[email protected]>
Date: Wednesday, 5 January, 2011, 0:08
You can always try to assign a particular type of instrument in
an
ideal tuning, but the term "lute", in any language form, is a
generic
term for a "family-context" of instruments.
Unfortunately with Vivaldi, the fact that it may be difficult to
play
or go "off the range" is absolutely not relevant, as is the case
in
his other concertos.
Remember this is the guy who writes the violin parts in bass
clef
sometimes, which you would need a reverse capo for. Not to
mention
the recorder concertos, and so on.
Even octave doublings, alas, do not give us a real clue, but the
mandolin fits the range nicely, and so do other lutes. Some
people
play it C major.
As for mutes, looking at Juditha Triumphans, we see, as
elsewhere in
the canon, that V. calls for lead mutes for his mandolin aria.
These
lead mutes are perfect for example the slow mvt, and if covered
with
leather are safe to use.
Some scholars venture that mutes were not used on the cello in
the
baroque period, but that of course is not true; however, they
may
have been less common, especially if using all gut strings for
the cello.
So you can play it on any lute, and if you wish to be in the
same
octave, you can play it on a smaller lute, and if you want it in
meantone, the mandolin tuning, with the high G ( or even E, but
the G
seems better to me), works perfect with no tastini which are a
chore
on the mandolin.
MT works because you have open B and E in the middle courses,
and if
you tune your archlute 4th and 5th courses down a half step that
works very nicely as well, also for the modulating bit.
Remember also that V did not write violone parts for 99 percent
of
his works, and in the extremely rare place where the violone
pops up,
it may be a cello or "church bass."
And, lastly, one of the many, many meanings for "concerto" is
"quartet," so it is fine to play it as a quartet of two violins,
lute and BC.
dt
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