Well by generally accepted I mean by the generality (ie for the most
part) of keyboard players not necessarily all of them - and to be fair
I did put in the rider that all was not perfect even in the harpsichord
continuo world...........
MH
--- On Fri, 1/4/11, Roman Turovsky <r.turov...@verizon.net> wrote:
From: Roman Turovsky <r.turov...@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [LUTE] Continuo and the Foscarini Experience
To: "Martyn Hodgson" <hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk>, "Christopher
Wilke" <chriswi...@yahoo.com>
Cc: "Lutelist" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Date: Friday, 1 April, 2011, 15:02
If you ever see, say, Guido Morini doing live continuo you'd realize
that
there are no generally acceptable limits for
keyboard continuo practice.
RT
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martyn Hodgson" <[1]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk>
To: "Christopher Wilke" <[2]chriswi...@yahoo.com>
Cc: "Lutelist" <[3]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 9:55 AM
Subject: [LUTE] Continuo and the Foscarini Experience
>
>
> Interesting thoughts Chris - but I don't think people would say
'great
> continuo playing' if one busked in the style of, say, Scott Joplin
in,
> say, a Bach Mass setting. In fact, the evidence is not as scant as
you
> suggest and in practice there are generally acceptable limits for
> keyboard continuo practice (often based on what we know of
historical
> practice). As far as I understand from the discussion, the problem
is
> that the 'Foscarini Experience' performance is so far away from
what
> any audience might have heard ('experienced') at the time as to be
a
> parody, or rather a travesty, of what the composer may have had in
> mind.
>
> Of course all is not perfect even in the keyboard continuo world
and
> some harpsichord players seem to find it hard to resist things like
> heavy regular arpeggiation in, say, a Vivaldi slow movement - a
sort of
> grafted on harpsichord concerto but it's still much better than
with
> the lute/theorbo where electronic amplification of the individual
> instrument can often be the norm thus allowing a sort of fancy lute
> song style accompaniment which in practice would be inaudible
without
> the amplification.
>
> This sort of 'experience' by FE is surely an admission of artistic
> defeat rather than a triumph of individualism - by pandering to
current
> popular music fashions (much simple rhythmic movement and a lot of
> thrashing about) it seems as though the ensemble is trying to
generate
> sales by satisfying the lowest common denominator - nothing
> intrinsically wrong with this of course, but hackles must rise when
> it's promoted as being close to what was heard at the time....
>
> MH
> --- On Fri, 1/4/11, Christopher Wilke <[4]chriswi...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
>
> From: Christopher Wilke <[5]chriswi...@yahoo.com>
> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Foscarini Experience again
> To: "Stuart Walsh" <[6]s.wa...@ntlworld.com>, "Monica Hall"
> <[7]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
> Cc: "Lutelist" <[8]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> Date: Friday, 1 April, 2011, 13:58
>
> --- On Fri, 4/1/11, Monica Hall <[1][9]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
wrote:
> >
> > I don't think really these people really make any attempt
> > to play the music in a "historically informed way"..or have
> > any relevant knowledge at all.
> >
> > Everyone is just fooled by their virtuosity.
> >
> > Cynically
> >
> > Monica
> >
> I think we have to make a distinction between the scholarly side of
> things and the artistic aspect. "Historically informed" is not a
very
> helpful critical term. Deciding who is "historically informed-er"
> tells us little about the artistic worth of the performance. I
don't
> think it is necessarily invalid for a performer, in light of scant
> historical evidence, to bring in aspects of performance done is
accord
> with modern principles (i.e. improvisation) as a substitute for
> essential subjects treated only ambiguously in the texts. After
all,
> if you're one of the well-respected harpsichord players in any
number
> of baroque ensembles, they call this sort of thing "great continuo
> playing."
> Chris
> Christopher Wilke
> Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer
> www.christopherwilke.com
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart Walsh"
> <[2][10]s.wa...@ntlworld.com>
> > Cc: "Lutelist" <[3][11]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> > Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 9:06 AM
> > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Foscarini Experience again
> >
> >
> > > On 31/03/2011 22:08, Stuart Walsh wrote:
> > >> On 31/03/2011 19:53, Monica Hall wrote:
> > >>> I came across this
> > CD by the group Foscarini Experience with the title
> > >>> "Bon voyage" some time
> > ago.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> I looked around to see if I could hear some of the
> > tracks as samples. Couldn't find anything but I did find an
> > album by 'Private Musicke' (who played at Edinburgh last
> > year with an opera singer) and there are some samples from
> > this album, Echo de Paris:
> > >>
> > >>
[4][12]http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Accent/ACC24173#listen
> > >>
> > >> It's interesting that the one solo of Corbetta's
> > and the several of Bartolotti are played actually as solos -
> > very fluently (but perhaps, at the gushing rather than the
> > pinched, end of the spectrum) whereas Foscarini (and
> > Briceno) get a complete makeover. Actually playing through
> > Foscarini you struggle to find anything musically coherent
> > at all - but on this album, his (ahem) music bursts
> > forth as colourful, radiant and beguilingly tuneful.
> > >
> > > (i.e. this is all rather curious...where did all these
> > arrangements come from - and arrangements of what in the
> > first place?)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Stuart
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> In the liner notes it
> > mentions an
> > >>> illustration which
> > features Foscarini on a wagon playing the lute
> > >>> together with a girl
> > with a triangle and a violone player which
> > >>> apparently dates from
> > 1615 and is part of an illustration of a feast
> > >>> held for the
> > Archduchess Isabella Clara Eugenia, the wife of the
> > >>> Archduke Albert.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Does anyone know
> > anything about this illustration and whether the
> > >>> lutenist is clearly
> > identified as Foscarini. I have done a bit of
> > >>> surfing the net but
> > haven't found any trace of it.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Monica
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> --
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> To get on or off this list see list
> > information at
> > >>> [5][13]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> [6][14]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
> --
>
> References
>
> 1.
[15]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
> 2.
[16]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=s.wa...@ntlworld.com
> 3.
[17]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> 4. [18]http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Accent/ACC24173#listen
> 5. [19]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> 6. [20]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
>
--
References
1. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
2. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=chriswi...@yahoo.com
3. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
4. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=chriswi...@yahoo.com
5. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=chriswi...@yahoo.com
6. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=s.wa...@ntlworld.com
7. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
8. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
9. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
10. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=s.wa...@ntlworld.com
11. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
12. http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Accent/ACC24173#listen
13. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
14. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
15. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
16. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=s.wa...@ntlworld.com
17. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
18. http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Accent/ACC24173#listen
19. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
20. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
