In correct Italian "gli" can be referred to females only if they are more than one, otherwise it is "le" (http://www.locuta.com/pronind.html for reference of verbal espressions). In my edition of the Zingarelli (older perhaps) I didn't find the statement you quote: it states "pr. m. sg. atono obl.". It correctly reports that in Tuscan dialect "gli" can be used indifferently for both gender (I'm from Florence actually 8^)) but it's indeed a dialectal form of a particular region, even if commonly used in spoken modern Italian and considered a minor mistake. Probably it's to this case that refers your edition of the Zingarelli. Anyway, here the poetical common place for which the female eyes are sweet and harmful, being one of the best weapons of love, is explicit and doesn't fit too well to a male.
"là onde" contracted to "l'onde" is to be excluded because the word "là", being so short, would be incomprehensible and might be confused with an article. I would also exclude a translation of "l'onde" = "the waves" as it would be literally. It might be that she goes to glaze at the sea but it seems meaningless to me... So I think the only solution is that there is a space added or a dash forgotten, as the text was probably extrapolated from the lyrics. Francesco > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On > Behalf Of Stephen Arndt > Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2011 1:07 AM > To: 'lute'; Francesco Tribioli > Subject: [LUTE] Re: O felici occhi miei > > I defer to Francesco, who is a native speaker, whereas I am not. I > would > like to point out, however, that "Il nuovo Zingarelli" does give > "pronome > personale atono di terza persona femminile singulare" ("an unstressed > personal pronoun of the third person feminine singular") as a second > meaning > of "gli." I also wonder whether it is possible to take "l'onde" as a > contraction of "là onde" ("there where" or "the place where"), which I > was > doing, especially since in the text I found it was not attached to the > verb > "mirar" but to the adverb "onde." But perhaps it is not because "là" > has a > written accent. In any event, the text does seem a bit convoluted. > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Francesco Tribioli" <[email protected]> > Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2011 5:19 PM > To: "'lute'" <[email protected]> > Subject: [LUTE] Re: O felici occhi miei > > > "rei" here means guilty, harsh etc. "Reo" is someone who is > recognized > > responsible of a crime. "Rei" is the plural of "reo". King is "re" > and the > > plural is again "re". The English "regal" in Italian is "regale" so > it's > > not > > the case here. > > > > The object of the lyric is a male. "gli" is male, female would be > "le" and > > also there is the "mirarl'onde" which is "mirarlo onde" and "mirarLO" > is > > referred to a male or it would have been "mirarLA" and the elision of > the > > "o" wouldn't have been possible. > > > > The plot would be: the guy loves the singer eyes, a lady herself in > love > > with him that is her sun, just because they look similar to the eyes > of > > his > > beloved which to him (gli) were (fur) sweet (dolci) and harsh (rei- > guilty > > ecc.). The eyes of the singer are happy to see him but she is not > because > > she, to calm her eyes desire, hurries to gaze at him but then > languishes > > (because he loves the one who had probably rejected or abandoned him > and > > not > > her). > > > > Not one of the best example of Italian poetry I would say 8^) Also it > is a > > quite strange and unusual situation, because normally it's the man > that > > languishes behind a lady in the poetry of that age. Might this be an > > approximated transcription by the Spanish Ortiz of a text he didn't > > completely understand? > > > > Francesco > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] > On > >> Behalf Of Stephen Arndt > >> Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2011 8:25 PM > >> To: lute > >> Subject: [LUTE] Re: O felici occhi miei > >> > >> I'm not sure of the original text. A previous respondent seems to > >> have > >> taken the translation from > >> http://www.loscuadernosdejulia.com/2007/02/o-felici-occhi-miei- > >> arcadelt > >> -and-lute.html, which gives the following: > >> O felic' occhi miei, felici voi, > >> che sete car' al mio sol > >> perche sembianz' havete > >> de gliocchi che gli fu si dolc'e rei. > >> voi ben voi sete voi, > >> voi, voi felici et io, > >> io no, che per quetar vostro desio, > >> corr' a mirar l'onde mi struggo poi. > >> If this is the correct text, I would understand it thus: > >> O happy eyes of mine, you happy ones > >> who are dear to my sun > >> because you bear the semblance > >> of the eyes of her that were so sweet and regal. > >> You indeed, it is you, > >> You, you who (are) happy, and I, > >> I (am) not, who to quiet your desire, > >> hurry to gaze where I then languish. > >> I am not sure, however, about the word rei in line four of the > >> original. It is probably a contraction of reali, which is how > both > >> the > >> previous respondent and I have translated it, but it might be the > >> plural of reo (Latin reus), meaning "guilty" (perhaps because the > >> eyes > >> of the lady in question elicited sinful desires in the poet?). > >> > >> Hope this helps. > >> > >> Stephen Arndt > >> -------------------------------------------------- > >> From: "Sean Smith" <[email protected]> > >> Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2011 11:51 AM > >> To: "lute" <[email protected]> > >> Subject: [LUTE] O felici occhi miei > >> > > >> > Would anyone have a translation of Arcadelt's madrigal? > >> > > >> > Here are the words (from the Ortiz 1552 book). I apologize for > >> > probably not getting the lines/stanzas arranged correctly. > >> > > >> > > >> > O felici occhi miei felici voi > >> > Che sete car'al mio sol per che sembianz' havete > >> > de gl'occhi che gli fur si dolce rei > >> > voi ben voi sete voi > >> > voi voi felici et io, io no che per quetar vostro desio > >> > corr'a mirar l'onde mi strugo poi mi strugo poi. > >> > > >> > Mega-thanks in advance!! > >> > > >> > Sean > >> > > >> > ps Yes, it makes a nice lutesong. Solo in daCrema '46 (Minkoff) > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > To get on or off this list see list information at > >> > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- > > > >
