It is the standard scholarship that ouds had frets originally, but lost them
by 1300's.
Ditto harmony in islamic music in general.
Probably as victims of islamic ideology.
RT
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruno Fournier" <[email protected]>
To: "Martin Shepherd" <[email protected]>
Cc: "Lute List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2011 9:48 AM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: two fifteenth century songs arranged by Eric Redlinger
Here weA go again with this debate.A I play lute and Oud A in a
medieval ensemble , [1]www.estavel.org.A A I must say, that I like the
sound of the Oud when playing Cantigas or Livre Vermeil stuff, however
I move to a fretted luted for later stuff, Dufay, Landini, etc.
A
I recently played a Cantigas program on the Oud, and Saz (fretted)
combined with aA traditional algerianA andalucian group, it really
sounded great.
A
I do believe I saw an early arabic drawing of a fretted lute, posted on
this list at some point.A I think it's safe to assume that both
co-existed.
A
undecidedfretfully
A
Bruno Cognyl-Fournier
[2]www.estavel.org
A
On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 8:39 AM, Martin Shepherd
<[3][email protected]> wrote:
I remember someone discussing a treatise by Al Kindi (? 11-12th
century?) which discusses how to place frets on the oud and
discusses Pythagorean schemes, etc. A - so it seems that at least
some ouds had frets. A Can anyone supply the details?
Martin
On 22/05/2011 12:59, alexander wrote:
These pictures here from Cantigas de Santa Maria were looked at up
and down, by countless people. It is hard to deny that most likely,
those lute-ouds do not have frets.
[4]http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/cantigas/images/03.gif
Of course, some people argue that, as always, a pencil-challenged
illuminator just did not care for drawing the frets. Then we look at
a fretted and fretless guitar-things next to each other:
[5]http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/cantigas/images/15.gif
LXR
On Sun, 22 May 2011 09:42:06 +0200
David van Ooijen<[6][email protected]> A wrote:
Oh, people who know better should step in.
What I understand is fretless oud playing is a relative modern (how
modern I do not know) thing. What I understand is early (how early I
do not know) Arabian music treatises have fretting schemes with
tuning
systems for oud.
David - fretting for theorbo concert today
--
To get on or off this list see list information at
[7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
A
Bruno Cognyl-Fournier
A
[8]www.estavel.org
A
--
References
1. http://www.estavel.org/
2. http://www.estavel.org/
3. mailto:[email protected]
4. http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/cantigas/images/03.gif
5. http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/cantigas/images/15.gif
6. mailto:[email protected]
7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
8. http://www.estavel.org/
