As usually, RT statements are bold but ill-informed. Frets were commonly described (as standard on the 'ûd) throughout the 15th and into the 16th century. P. ex. by Marâghî (senior, junior), Kanz at-Tuhaf, etc…
greetings danyel Am 22.05.2011 um 15:54 schrieb Roman Turovsky: > It is the standard scholarship that ouds had frets originally, but lost them > by 1300's. > Ditto harmony in islamic music in general. > Probably as victims of islamic ideology. > RT > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruno Fournier" <[email protected]> > To: "Martin Shepherd" <[email protected]> > Cc: "Lute List" <[email protected]> > Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2011 9:48 AM > Subject: [LUTE] Re: two fifteenth century songs arranged by Eric Redlinger > > >> Here weA go again with this debate.A I play lute and Oud A in a >> medieval ensemble , [1]www.estavel.org.A A I must say, that I like the >> sound of the Oud when playing Cantigas or Livre Vermeil stuff, however >> I move to a fretted luted for later stuff, Dufay, Landini, etc. >> >> A >> >> I recently played a Cantigas program on the Oud, and Saz (fretted) >> combined with aA traditional algerianA andalucian group, it really >> sounded great. >> >> A >> >> I do believe I saw an early arabic drawing of a fretted lute, posted on >> this list at some point.A I think it's safe to assume that both >> co-existed. >> >> A >> >> undecidedfretfully >> >> A >> >> Bruno Cognyl-Fournier >> >> [2]www.estavel.org >> >> A >> >> On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 8:39 AM, Martin Shepherd >> <[3][email protected]> wrote: >> >> I remember someone discussing a treatise by Al Kindi (? 11-12th >> century?) which discusses how to place frets on the oud and >> discusses Pythagorean schemes, etc. A - so it seems that at least >> some ouds had frets. A Can anyone supply the details? >> Martin >> >> On 22/05/2011 12:59, alexander wrote: >> >> These pictures here from Cantigas de Santa Maria were looked at up >> and down, by countless people. It is hard to deny that most likely, >> those lute-ouds do not have frets. >> [4]http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/cantigas/images/03.gif >> Of course, some people argue that, as always, a pencil-challenged >> illuminator just did not care for drawing the frets. Then we look at >> a fretted and fretless guitar-things next to each other: >> [5]http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/cantigas/images/15.gif >> LXR >> On Sun, 22 May 2011 09:42:06 +0200 >> David van Ooijen<[6][email protected]> A wrote: >> >> Oh, people who know better should step in. >> What I understand is fretless oud playing is a relative modern (how >> modern I do not know) thing. What I understand is early (how early I >> do not know) Arabian music treatises have fretting schemes with >> tuning >> systems for oud. >> David - fretting for theorbo concert today >> -- >> >> To get on or off this list see list information at >> [7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> >> -- >> >> A >> >> Bruno Cognyl-Fournier >> >> A >> >> [8]www.estavel.org >> >> A >> >> -- >> >> References >> >> 1. http://www.estavel.org/ >> 2. http://www.estavel.org/ >> 3. mailto:[email protected] >> 4. http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/cantigas/images/03.gif >> 5. http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/cantigas/images/15.gif >> 6. mailto:[email protected] >> 7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> 8. http://www.estavel.org/ >> > >
