That's great! Are these both octave strung instruments on your Duo Chambure Youtubes? The sound is gorgeous! Bill From: Edward Martin <[email protected]> To: William Samson <[email protected]>; "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, 20 November 2011, 18:58 Subject: [LUTE] Re: Double 1st string on 6 course lutes? Thanks, Bill. I have my vihuelas set up in gut, with octaves on 4, 5, and 6. It sounds charming, and yes, I do play Milan on it! ed At 12:53 PM 11/20/2011, William Samson wrote: > Certainly, Ed. But how many vihuelas do we see nowadays in these > configurations? In fact I wonder if there's a single one that isn't > set up with unisons throughout and a double first? We're very > conservative (with a small 'c') when it comes to pushing the envelope. > I wonder if there was any recognised difference between how lutes and > vihuelas were strung in a given place at the time. Nowadays, though, > we're very blinkered about it all and conform to templates which are in > some ways questionable. > I'd love to hear Milan, say, played on an octave strung vihuela, or > Milano on a unison strung 6c lute. > Bill > From: Edward Martin <[1][email protected]> > To: William Samson <[2][email protected]>; "[3][email protected]" > <[4][email protected]> > Sent: Sunday, 20 November 2011, 18:31 > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Double 1st string on 6 course lutes? > Thanks for the reference, Bill. There have been new discoveries > since the time the article was written, where we now cannot claim > that vihuelas were string in unison. Some were, others were > not. They may have had the double first course, but there is > evidence to the contrary that some vihuelas were string in octaves on > 4,5, and 6th courses. > ed > At 12:02 PM 11/20/2011, William Samson wrote: > > I've found the reference - Segerman and Abbott, FoMRHI Comm number > 30, > > July 1976 > > [1][1][5]http://www.fomrhi.org/uploads/bulletins/Fomrhi-004.pdf > > > > They say (p37) "Instruments which come to mind that had double > first > > courses and unison basses were > > 1. Vihuela > > 2. Robinson (1603) and Dowland (1610) lute. > > 3. At least some late 16th century Italian lutes. . . . ." > > > > They give references on which they base these statements. > > > > Interesting stuff. What I find odd is that we've been channelled > into > > a mindset where just about all 6c lutes built nowadays have single > > first courses and octaves on 6, 5 and 4. Lutes with 7 or more > courses > > have unisons on 5, 4, 3, 2 and a single first, and octaves from 6 > > downwards. 11 and 13 c lutes have single 1st and second courses > but > > 12c lutes have double second courses. All very formulaic and I'm > as > > guilty as anyone of following these 'rules'. But there's plenty > of > > evidence of more varied configurations in use at the time, and it > would > > be surprising if there wasn't. It's a pity that these differences > > don't show up in modern practice, though I fully understand why - > > resale value for example, and maybe an assumption that as these > seem to > > have ended up as the most successful configurations at the time, > > there's no need to explore anything else. > > > > Bill > > > > PS Oh yes - and octave stringing works out cheaper too :o) > > From: Daniel Winheld <[2][6][email protected]> > > To: William Samson <[3][7][email protected]> > > Cc: "[4][8][email protected]" <[5][9][email protected]> > > Sent: Sunday, 20 November 2011, 17:05 > > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Double 1st string on 6 course lutes? > > >> " I seem to remember that lutes with a double chanterelle were > > usually strung in unisons." > > Mimmo Peruffo disputes that assumption: from his website page > "The > > lute in its historical reality"- > > 9. Double treble and unison courses: the fact that the vihuela was > > generally (but not always) strung with a double treble led some > > scholars to take that as evidence in favour of all courses having > been > > strung with unisons. We fail to grasp the logic of it. There is, > on the > > other hand, evidence proving that the vihuela could have a single > > treble, whereas most Renaissance lutes where strung with double > > trebles. > > [2][6][10]http://www.mimmoperuffo.org/9e.htm > > On Nov 19, 2011, at 11:42 PM, William Samson wrote: > > > Again - I've forgotten the source (probably Eph Segerman), but > I > > seem > > > to remember that lutes with a double chanterelle were usually > strung > > in > > > unisons. I do know that Eph had a 7c lute made like this and > strung > > > with catlines (his own manufacture - Northern Renaissance > > Instruments) > > > in the basses. It certainly worked very well, but sounded > 'darker' > > > than a lute with octave stringing in the basses. > > > Bill > > > From: wikla <[3][7][11][email protected]> > > > To: [4][8][12][email protected] > > > Sent: Saturday, 19 November 2011, 20:51 > > > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Double 1st string on 6 course lutes? > > > Thanks to all for the most interesting answers! > > > I actually just ordered a 6 courser, model Venere (the > original, the > > > model, > > > was a 7 courser, I suppose?) from Lauri Niskanen, the guy who > made > > my > > > new > > > 11 courser. And I ordered an option to double chanterelle - > just one > > > extra > > > peg, just 3 grooves and 3 holes up and down. > > > Any more constructive ideas what to hope and ask? > > > best, > > > Arto > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > > > [1][5][9][13]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > > > -- > > > > > > References > > > > > > 1. > [6][10][14]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > > -- > > > > -- > > > >References > > > > 1. [11][15]http://www.fomrhi.org/uploads/bulletins/Fomrhi-004.pdf > > 2. [12][16]http://www.mimmoperuffo.org/9e.htm > > 3. mailto:[13][17][email protected] > > 4. mailto:[14][18][email protected] > > 5. [15][19]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > 6. [16][20]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > Edward Martin > 2817 East 2nd Street > Duluth, Minnesota 55812 > e-mail: [17][21][email protected] > voice: (218) 728-1202 > [18][22]http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name > [19][23]http://www.myspace.com/edslute > [20][24]http://magnatune.com/artists/edward_martin > > -- > >References > > 1. [25]http://www.fomrhi.org/uploads/bulletins/Fomrhi-004.pdf > 2. mailto:[26][email protected] > 3. mailto:[27][email protected] > 4. mailto:[28][email protected] > 5. mailto:[29][email protected] > 6. [30]http://www.mimmoperuffo.org/9e.htm > 7. mailto:[31][email protected] > 8. mailto:[32][email protected] > 9. [33]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > 10. [34]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > 11. [35]http://www.fomrhi.org/uploads/bulletins/Fomrhi-004.pdf > 12. [36]http://www.mimmoperuffo.org/9e.htm > 13. mailto:[37][email protected] > 14. mailto:[38][email protected] > 15. [39]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > 16. [40]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > 17. mailto:[41][email protected] > 18. [42]http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name > 19. [43]http://www.myspace.com/edslute > 20. [44]http://magnatune.com/artists/edward_martin Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: [45][email protected] voice: (218) 728-1202 [46]http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name [47]http://www.myspace.com/edslute [48]http://magnatune.com/artists/edward_martin
-- References 1. mailto:[email protected] 2. mailto:[email protected] 3. mailto:[email protected] 4. mailto:[email protected] 5. http://www.fomrhi.org/uploads/bulletins/Fomrhi-004.pdf 6. mailto:[email protected] 7. mailto:[email protected] 8. mailto:[email protected] 9. mailto:[email protected] 10. http://www.mimmoperuffo.org/9e.htm 11. mailto:[email protected] 12. mailto:[email protected] 13. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 14. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 15. http://www.fomrhi.org/uploads/bulletins/Fomrhi-004.pdf 16. http://www.mimmoperuffo.org/9e.htm 17. mailto:[email protected] 18. mailto:[email protected] 19. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 20. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 21. mailto:[email protected] 22. http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name 23. http://www.myspace.com/edslute 24. http://magnatune.com/artists/edward_martin 25. http://www.fomrhi.org/uploads/bulletins/Fomrhi-004.pdf 26. mailto:[email protected] 27. mailto:[email protected] 28. mailto:[email protected] 29. mailto:[email protected] 30. http://www.mimmoperuffo.org/9e.htm 31. mailto:[email protected] 32. mailto:[email protected] 33. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 34. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 35. http://www.fomrhi.org/uploads/bulletins/Fomrhi-004.pdf 36. http://www.mimmoperuffo.org/9e.htm 37. mailto:[email protected] 38. mailto:[email protected] 39. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 40. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 41. mailto:[email protected] 42. http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name 43. http://www.myspace.com/edslute 44. http://magnatune.com/artists/edward_martin 45. mailto:[email protected] 46. http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name 47. http://www.myspace.com/edslute 48. http://magnatune.com/artists/edward_martin
