Dear Dan, I agree with you! It's always best to play the real thing... Although I have to say that I have always admired Tony Rooley for his understanding of renaissance culture and musicianship. In the case of the padoana, he rightly recognised that it has the sort of 'cut & paste' structure to it that allows subtraction (and potentially addition!) of sections without destroying the character of the piece. This seems to have been part of the way in which 16c lutenists worked. We should perhaps do more of it ourselves today...
Best wishes, Denys -----Original Message----- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Daniel Winheld Sent: 15 June 2012 22:28 To: Denys Stephens Cc: 'lute net' Subject: [LUTE] Re: An old Capirola edition? Understanding now that this is a version for beginners, I apologize for telling Arto to throw away anything pedagogical from Anthony Rooley's hand. But Arto is ready to move beyond the beginner's version! Dan Dan On Jun 15, 2012, at 1:29 PM, Denys Stephens wrote: > Dear Arto, > I think you must have a photocopy of the version from pages 29-30 > of Anthony Rooley's 'A new varietie of lute lessons' which was > published in 1975 together with an LP of all the pieces in the > book. It was rather an exciting idea at the time. It formed part > of a series of publications of 'music from student repertoire' > published by Guitar Magazine, which is the reason why the piece > is simplified by the exclusion of the more difficult sections. > The tablature was hand written by Michael Hunt, who also wrote > out some of the early Lute Society tablature sheets, which is > why it could easily be mistaken for a Lute Society production. > I have always found the split third course section in the > full version of the piece much easier to do in practice than > it might seem to be in theory, especially when you have the > right lute to play it on. It completely confounds, of course, > tablature programs, which have no way of replicating this > notation. > > The use of the title 'Padoana Venetiana' for the piece is > interesting. It has somehow entered the realm of lute > mythology that this is the proper title of the piece - which > as you have noted, it isn't! My guess is that this comes from > a misreading of the introductory material in Otto Gombosi's 1955 > edition of the Capirola lute book, where he describes the Capirola > padoana as belonging to the 'family' of dances which includes > Dalza's pavanas 'alla Venetiana,' although he doesn't give the > piece that title. But at the time of Tony Rooley's book, the > Capirola manuscript was only known from the Gombosi edition, > as there were no facsimilies of it available then. The padoana > itself seems to have been a lute players standard piece, and may > not have been composed by Capirola at all, although his version is > very elegant. Other versions of it are found in Newsidler's > 'Ein newes lautenbuchlein' of 1540, and more famously as 'the > Duke of Somersett's Dompe' in Ms. Royal Appendix 58. It's > particularly interesting that there is a 'Pavana deta la > descordata' which is clearly based on the same theme in > the Castelfranco Veneto manuscript, which seems to be Giovanni > Pacalono's reworking of the piece. It was still in circulation > and popular well after the time of the Capirola manuscript. > > Best wishes, > > Denys > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf > Of Arto Wikla > Sent: 15 June 2012 19:44 > To: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu > Subject: [LUTE] An old Capirola edition? > > Dear lutenists > I played an old version of a "Padoana Veneziana", old _modern version_ > of this piece. It seems to be a free edition of the real Capirola .23. > "Padoana belissima, descorda come sancta trinitas" (Minkoff page 54). > In the original the 6th course is lowered a whole tone, the edition > uses the 7th. The original has a special section that separates the > strings of the 4th course, the edition luckily not! ;-) The edition > also misses some sections of the original. But the edition is fun to > play! :-) Also the attribute "Veneziana" seems to be a modern > interpretation? The piece is in > [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElFIRz2WWxM&feature=youtu.be > [2]http://vimeo.com/44120062 > I have only an old photocopy page of the edition, no editor name there. > French tab. Looks like old Lute Society edition? Anyone happens to know > the editor or the reason for this Padoana being "Veneziana"? > Best, > Arto > -- > > References > > Visible links > 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElFIRz2WWxM&feature=youtu.be > 2. http://vimeo.com/44120062 > > Hidden links: > 3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElFIRz2WWxM&feature=youtu.be > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > >
