I jest of course, but in some ways it IS nerve-wracking for just that reason!
David > Yikes! How do professional lute makers manage to sleep at night, with > their products ready to go 'pop' at any moment? > > Bill > From: David Van Edwards <[email protected]> > To: William Samson <[email protected]> > Cc: Martyn Hodgson <[email protected]>; Lute builder Dmth > <[email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, 7 February 2013, 16:39 > Subject: [LUTE-BUILDER] Re: Further to: Bar end supports on lutes > Yes, as far as I have observed no lutes were made using support blocks, > however obvious it would be to give strength. In fact one of the > commonest problems with amateur made instruments is the tendency to > make things too strong. It is a maxim to bear in mind that lutes sound > best when right on the point of collapse! Trembling with fear as it > were! > I do remember many years ago asking Friedmann Hellwig specifically > about whether he thought bar ends were glued to the ribs and he said > quite clearly that he thought not. Maybe accidental glue in the joint > there, but nothing deliberate he said. He has probably examined more > original lutes than anyone, so I'm inclined to take him seriously. But > of course this is not to deny Martyn's observation of the Stautinger > mandora, different makers probably had different practices, even then. > Best wishes, > David > At 15:32 +0000 7/2/13, William Samson wrote: > > Dear Martyn, > > > > What you say makes perfect sense. I will continue to follow the > > example set by the old ones. > > > > Kind regards, > > > > Bill > > From: Martyn Hodgson <[1][email protected]> > > To: Lute builder Dmth <[2][email protected]> > > Sent: Thursday, 7 February 2013, 14:46 > > Subject: [LUTE-BUILDER] Further to: Bar end supports on lutes > > Further to the recent mailings about using supports to the bar > ends > > of > > lutes (as commonly found on guitars) to avoid then becoming > loose, > > there were few responses and the gist seemed to bit that it was > a > > good > > idea and unlikely to injure the instrument's tone. > > This may be the case, but I'd like to insert a note of caution: > as > > far > > as I'm aware no old lute has such bar end supports so we need to > be > > very careful before considering their general modern use. > Perhaps > > the > > slight angle between the rib and belly - a little less than a > right > > angle - provides sufficient end support if the bars are fitted > > precisely to the rib and at the exact same angle (not possible > on the > > guitar which is a right angle). And, of course, the vast > majority of > > lute makers did not seem to make guitars - and vice-versa (few > > exceptions such as Tielke of course and a some workshops) . > > One other factor which provides more secure bar end fixing > also > > occurs > > to me: Mace speaks of a method of sticking on the belly in one > > operation (and of ensuring the bar ends are very well applied > with > > glue). It's a procedure I now usually follow and, tho' it can be > a > > bit > > nerve-wracking, the capability of animal glue to be readily > remelted > > in-situ allows post fixing adjustments to be easily made (and > indeed > > Mace mentions this). If one makes a pig's ear of the whole > business > > one > > can remove again, clean up and try again next day. It occurs to > me > > that the (modern?) method of sticking on a lute belly by working > > slowly > > round trying to get glue into the join is fine - except when one > > comes > > to the bar end where it can be difficult to ensure one has > worked in > > sufficient glue - in short the bar end may be starved. > > The latest original historic lute I've been able to examine > inside in > > detail is a 1773 instrument by Stautinger which exhibits all > lute > > construction features and has no bar end supports. Altho an > internal > > repair had taken place to the back which had suffered a serious > dent, > > access had been made by the rose being cut out (and crudely > replaced > > after) rather than the belly being removed; the original belly > > fixing/gluing was still (I believe) in place - and the external > > wooden > > liner (as commonly found on 18th century lutes) seemed wholly > > undisturbed. All the bars were still glued securely to the sides > > (with > > quite a bit of squeeze out evident on a few too). > > In short, if the bar ends are closely fitted to the angled ribs > and > > sufficient glue is put onto the ends I think there is no need to > > consider additional supports like those being suggested. But I > > understand very high humidity, in the US especially, may be a > > contributory factor to bar end failure with which we here do not > have > > to cope...... > > MH > > -- > > To get on or off this list see list information at > > [1][3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > -- > > > > References > > > > 1. [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > -- The Smokehouse, > 6 Whitwell Road, > Norwich, NR1 4HB England. > Telephone: + 44 (0)1603 629899 > Website: [5]http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/ > > -- > >References > > 1. mailto:[email protected] > 2. mailto:[email protected] > 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > 5. http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/ -- The Smokehouse, 6 Whitwell Road, Norwich, NR1 4HB England. Telephone: + 44 (0)1603 629899 Website: http://www.vanedwards.co.uk
