I've seen some of the manifests via Ancestry.com--the handwriting is not
always too clear. My great grandfather came over from Denmark and
promptly changed his name from Jörgen Wilhelm Hansen to John William
Hansen.
On a more musical note, I once heard a family chamber group called
"Monteverdi"; they did indeed play some of his work, but the name came
from their family name: Greenberg.
Leonard
On 5/8/13 3:15 PM, "Dan Winheld" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Name checking against a ship's manifest sounds too logical to be
>dismissed. More likely mangling happened during hasty, crowded
>embarkations; where legality & taxonomic scrupulousness were more
>ephemeral- but the errors only coming to light at Ellis Island, where
>the shouting itself (according to descendants of the original
>Choderowski to Toder transformation) finally occurred. Naturalization?
>Sure- passport office? Not so sure- but maybe any old spelling just to
>expedite getting out of the old country.
>
> Congratulations on bringing Turovsky through the tunnel unscathed, and
>we know my grandad was himself to blame for surname self-mangling. As
>one of my wife's other relatives once said ruefully in regard to a
>surprise spelling- "Vell, I haff alveys pronounced mine wubbleyous mit a
>"Vee".
>
>Dan
>
>
>On 5/8/2013 11:33 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>> Dan,
>> The purported "Ellis Island" name manglings is a myth.
>> Every immigrant's name had to be and was matched to the ship's
>> manifest, and any deviation was massively illegal.
>> So any changes people claim were made either at naturalization, or at
>> the passport office in the "old country".
>> Cheers,
>> RT
>>
>>
>> On 5/8/2013 12:05 PM, Dan Winheld wrote:
>>> For a while (in the Siena book, anyway) Francesco was "da Parigi"-
>>> but in the end just a vacation- "Busman's Holiday". And of course,
>>> Alberto da Ripa- who stayed in France, but then Francophoned to "de
>>> Rippe", like Jean Paul Paladin- "Had lute, would travel". It can get
>>> complicated; Ottaviano dei Petrucci- da Fossombrone & Venezia.
>>>
>>> Some European surnames imposed on the unwilling were less than
>>> complimentary- Katzenellenbogen (Cat's Elbow) for example. And in the
>>> United States there is a whole class of newly manufactured names
>>> based solely on language mangling at Ellis Island by overworked &
>>> undereducated immigration officials. My wife's mother's family name
>>> "Choderowski" is now "Toder". My own grandfather, fluent in Russian
>>> and French, but not yet English, attempted to anglicise the family
>>> name from "Winogradski" to Winheld. Swing and a miss; no one to blame
>>> but himself- "Winheld" has no meaning in any terrestrial tongue.
>>>
>>> Danielito de New York, but "da Berkeley" since 1987.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5/8/2013 5:24 AM, Christopher Wilke wrote:
>>>> Tobiah,
>>>> Nothing wrong with calling him "da Milano," although in
>>>> actually
>>>> usage he's one of the few, like Michelangelo or Josquin, who are
>>>> frequently referred to by first name. We do say, "da Vinci."
>>>> Yes, this
>>>> literally translates to "of ______," but place names were - and
>>>> are -
>>>> common surnames. They happen in most European languages, i.e. the
>>>> French "de Visee," "de Gaulle," etc. Sometimes, the modifier
>>>> might be
>>>> honorific or an indication of noble lineage; sometimes not.
>>>> Anton von
>>>> Webern had to drop his "von" because of Austrian government
>>>> regulation
>>>> following WWI.
>>>> The first part may be left off, but this is optional and
>>>>largely
>>>> dictated by tradition. We usually refer to Giovanni Pierluigi as
>>>> "Palestrina" and seldom "da Palestrina," and it is more common
>>>> to hear
>>>> of "Beethoven" rather than "van Beethoven" - which is actually a
>>>> Dutch,
>>>> rather than German name. (Or you could go with "Ludwig van,"
>>>> like in a
>>>> Clockwork Orange.) On the other hand, one never hears about "Gogh"
>>>> without his "van."
>>>> Chris
>>>> Dr. Christopher Wilke D.M.A.
>>>> Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer
>>>> www.christopherwilke.com
>>>> --- On Tue, 5/7/13, Tobiah <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> From: Tobiah <[email protected]>
>>>> Subject: [LUTE] Frank from Milan
>>>> To: "'Lute Net'" <[email protected]>
>>>> Date: Tuesday, May 7, 2013, 10:43 PM
>>>>
>>>> Ok, my last college class was 20 year ago now. I thought
>>>> that I was told that "Francesco Canova da Milano" basically
>>>> meant "Francesco Canova from Milan (Italy)". I was reading the
>>>> surprisingly brief wikipedia article about the aforementioned
>>>> individual, and I came across this:
>>>> A composition called "Canzona by Francesco da Milano" (better
>>>> known as
>>>> the song "The City of Gold") is commonly misattributed to da
>>>> Milano.
>>>> So, if I am not grossly mistaken about my interpretation of the
>>>> entire handle with which we refer to the beloved 'Frank', then
>>>> I wonder if it can at all be correct to refer to him as
>>>> "da Milano". Wouldn't that be like one of you referencing
>>>> this letter and remarking that it was written by "From
>>>>California"?
>>>> I expect much from the ever flowing fount of knowledge and wisdom
>>>> that is this list!
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Tobiah
>>>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>>>> [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> References
>>>>
>>>> 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
