Allowing for a bit of poetic licence how about..
With his guitar that illustrious Italian, Corbetto By her voice, the most famous maid of Bologna, Margharitha Salicola Surpassed the Muses in the Venetian theatres. It is 17th century Latin and perhaps Adam Ebert who wrote it was not perfect in Latin. Anyway - thank you everybody for your thoughts on the matter. Monica _______________________ ----- Original Message ----- From: "stephen arndt" <[1][email protected]> To: "Gary Boye" <[2][email protected]>; "Monica Hall" <[3][email protected]>; "Alan Hoyle" <[4][email protected]> Cc: "Lutelist" <[5][email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2015 6:28 PM Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Latin translation > Well, yes. If they defeated the muses (in an imaginary contest), it was > because they played better. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Gary Boye > Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2015 12:08 PM > To: stephen arndt ; Monica Hall ; Alan Hoyle > Cc: Lutelist > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Latin translation > > Could it mean, in effect, that they "played even better than the muses"? > A bit of classical hyperbole typical of the times . . . > > Gary > > Dr. Gary R. Boye > Professor and Music Librarian > Appalachian State University > > On 4/8/2015 12:51 PM, stephen arndt wrote: >> If "vicere" is a noun in the ablative case, the sentence is left without a >> verb, and then you have to explain why "musas" is in the accusative case. >> If "vicerex" were a Latin word (it is not in Lewis and Short), the >> ablative would be "vicerege," not "vicere." The latter is listed as a >> poetic form of "vincere" by Lewis and Short. Morever, "vincere musas" was >> a set phrase in Latin. >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Monica Hall >> Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2015 11:06 AM >> To: Alan Hoyle >> Cc: Lutelist >> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Latin translation >> >> Maybe in the context it means "deputized" for or "replaced" the muses >> in the theatre in Venice, >> >> Monica >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: [1]Alan Hoyle >> >> To: [2]Monica Hall >> >> Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2015 5:00 PM >> >> Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Latin translation >> >> 'Vicere' - I am not 100% positive, but I am pretty sure that this word >> derives from 'vicerex' ('viceroy', 'substitute', 'vicar', 'embodiment >> of'......) and is its ablative form, and has nothing to do with the >> verb 'Vincere' >> N.B. it is over 50 years since I made any serious study of Latin, and >> although it may not have changed in that time, I most certainly have... >> Alan >> >> On 8 April 2015 at 16:42, Monica Hall <[3][email protected]> wrote: >> >> Thanks to Wikipedia ..... apparently >> Margarita Salicola (floruit 1682 - 1706) was a famous opera singer >> of her time. She came from a family of musicians at the court of the >> Ferdinando Carlo Gonzaga, Duke of Mantua and became a staple of >> casts at San Giovanni Grisostomo, Venice's newest and most famous >> theater, in the 1680s. etc... >> Corbetta was employed at the Mantuan Court - so presumably they >> appeared together there at some point... >> Monica >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Monica Hall" >> <[4][email protected]> >> To: "stephen arndt" <[5][email protected]> >> Cc: "Lutelist" <[6][email protected]> >> Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2015 4:33 PM >> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Latin translation >> >> Brilliant. Has anyone heard of a singer called Margarita Salicola? >> Monica >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "stephen arndt" >> <[7][email protected]> >> To: "Monica Hall" <[8][email protected]>; "Lutelist" >> <[9][email protected]> >> Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2015 4:27 PM >> Subject: Re: [LUTE] Latin translation >> >> How about the following for a literal, if not very elegant, >> translation? >> By his strings that illustrious Italian Corbetto (and) by her voice >> the so >> famous Bolognese maiden Margharitha Salicola defeated the muses in >> the >> Venetian theaters. >> I'm not exactly sure "what defeated the muses" refers to, apart from >> excellence in performance. Perhaps it is a reference to the >> daughters of >> Pierus, who challenged the muses in a contest of song and were >> turned into >> magpies when defeated. (Similar stories are the challenge of Marsyas >> to >> Apollo in flute playing or that of Arachne to Athena in weaving. >> There are >> others, but I can't think of them right now.) >> -----Original Message----- From: Monica Hall >> Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2015 10:02 AM >> To: Lutelist >> Subject: [LUTE] Latin translation >> I wonder if there is any Latin scholar on this list who could >> translate >> the >> following brief reference to Corbetta... >> Fidibus illustris ille Corbetto Italus >> Voce Margharitha Salicola virgo Boniensis >> Venetis tam famosa theatris vicere musas. >> Monica >> To get on or off this list see list information at >> [10]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> >> -- >> >> References >> >> 1. [6]mailto:[email protected] >> 2. [7]mailto:[email protected] >> 3. [8]mailto:[email protected] >> 4. [9]mailto:[email protected] >> 5. [10]mailto:[email protected] >> 6. [11]mailto:[email protected] >> 7. [12]mailto:[email protected] >> 8. [13]mailto:[email protected] >> 9. [14]mailto:[email protected] >> 10. [15]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> > -- References 1. mailto:[email protected] 2. mailto:[email protected] 3. mailto:[email protected] 4. mailto:[email protected] 5. mailto:[email protected] 6. mailto:[email protected] 7. mailto:[email protected] 8. mailto:[email protected] 9. mailto:[email protected] 10. mailto:[email protected] 11. mailto:[email protected] 12. mailto:[email protected] 13. mailto:[email protected] 14. mailto:[email protected] 15. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
