The left hand thumb was also used to fret bass notes on the 18th century Neapolitan mandolin (very occasionally). There are instances, as well, in the early 20th century Italian mandolin literature, such as Ernesto Rocco's "Serenade" and in some of Raffaele Calace's pieces for liuto cantabile (a 5-course plectrum instrument tuned like a cello, but with an extra E on top). Stephen Lalor, a contemporary Australian composer for mandolin and related instruments, specifies LH thumb in some of his recent pieces. In all of these cases, the technique is not physically necessary to realize the music.
On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 2:41 PM, Bruno Figueiredo <[1][email protected]> wrote: That's interesting. Watching all the pictures I noticed that none of them show the player with a strap. Therefore, they are holding the instrument by the neck (as there is no other way without a strap) and not fretting notes on the fingerboard. In fact the ones that could be doing so didn't need it because their right hand is in a way as if holding a plectrum - probably playing a single line. This is indeed so in the Cantigas de Santa Maria example, the thumb is opened just holding the instrument. The only conclusion I have from looking at these examples is that the use of a strap is not a historical one (at least until the 16th century). 2015-10-02 4:54 GMT-03:00 jmpoirier2 <[1][2][email protected]>: Please have a look at this page I put up a couple of years ago... [2][3]http://le.luth.free.fr/pouce/index.html Best to all, Jean-Marie -------- Message d'origine -------- De : jelmaa <[3][4][email protected]> Date : 01/10/2015 23:50 (GMT+01:00) A : lutelist Net <[4][5][email protected]> Objet : [LUTE] Re: Thumb-over I think the terms 'common' and 'replete' are very exaggerated for 19th century guitar repertoire. The LH thumb is used occasionally, but almost only in Viennese/Austrian solo repertoire, not in French or Spanish music. For it to work you need a guitar with a very thin neck, and it still messes up your left hand technique (in my experience, playing on original 19th C French & Viennese guitars). Jelma van Amersfoort On Oct 1, 2015, at 22:43 , G. C. wrote: > Hey Chris, that's really interesting. So the 19th century repertoire is > replete with this technique? I'm surprized and feel there is much to > this matter, which hasn't been thoroughly analyzed yet. :) G. > > On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 6:28 PM, Christopher Wilke > <[1][5][6][email protected]> wrote: > > The technique was common in 19th century guitar playing, where it > was > often marked with a "^". It does have some advantages and there > are > spots where it facilitates fewer chord shape changes. In that > repertoire, I haven't encountered any pieces that I absolutely > couldn't > finger without the thumb over the neck. (I did, however, perform > one > contemporary piece in which the only way I could figure out how > to get > a particular combination of notes was to use the left hand thumb. > This > was not due to cleverness on the composer's part, but rather > because he > wasn't a guitarist at all.) > I suspect that some lute players did this and some avoided it. > There > might be the odd piece that absolutely requires it. There also > might be > some performance practice insights one could gain from > experimenting > with it, but due to the risk of wrist injury, I'd be hesitant to > make a > regular practice of using it all the time. Even in the 19th > century, it > wasn't universal. Sor, for one, disapproved of it. > Chris > [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone > On Oct 1, 2015, 12:01:01 PM, G. C. wrote: > One obscure feature of plucking which has always fascinated but > eluded > me is the technique of using also the thumb to play on the lower > strings. Supposedly mainly feasible on 6 course instruments and a > narrow neck, it has apparently been in vogue and an open "secret" > for > the initiated since the days of Francesco at least (see famous > painting > by Giulio Campi on the cover of Doug's History of the Lute if it > indeed > depicts such a practice). I know that it is very common in Rock, > (where > its so widespread, that it has to be meaningful somehow). To me, > (classically trained), it looks bizarre, and more like someone > has > learned to play the wrong way. But it has to have at least some > advantages, as it seems to be so popular (at least among the rock > music > pluckers). Not only for barrA", particularly chords where the > index > presses on a fret in front of the fret that the thumb is stopping > look > bewildering. Might there be an ergonomic/finger mechanical > reason? > (Concert playing for hours so thereby avoiding carpal tunnel > syndrome?) > Is there someone here who could explain the inner workings and/or > advantages of this technique in a simple way or point to a > website, are > there any uses for it in lute-playing (skewed barrA"?), and does > the > practice have a consensus name? > Best regards > G > -- > To get on or off this list see list information at > [2][2][6][7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > References > 1. [3][7][8]https://yho.com/footer0 > 2. [4][8][9]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > -- > > References > > 1. mailto:[9][10][email protected] > 2. [10][11]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > 3. [11][12]https://yho.com/footer0 > 4. [12][13]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > -- Bruno Figueiredo Pesquisador autA'nomo da prA!tica e interpretaAS:A-L-o historicamente informada no alaA-ode e teorba. Doutor em PrA!ticas Interpretativas pela Universidade Federal do Estado do Rio de Janeiro. -- References 1. mailto:[14][email protected] 2. [15]http://le.luth.free.fr/pouce/index.html 3. mailto:[16][email protected] 4. mailto:[17][email protected] 5. mailto:[18][email protected] 6. [19]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 7. [20]https://yho.com/footer0 8. [21]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 9. mailto:[22][email protected] 10. [23]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 11. [24]https://yho.com/footer0 12. [25]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:[email protected] 2. mailto:[email protected] 3. http://le.luth.free.fr/pouce/index.html 4. mailto:[email protected] 5. mailto:[email protected] 6. mailto:[email protected] 7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 8. https://yho.com/footer0 9. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 10. mailto:[email protected] 11. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 12. https://yho.com/footer0 13. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 14. mailto:[email protected] 15. http://le.luth.free.fr/pouce/index.html 16. mailto:[email protected] 17. mailto:[email protected] 18. mailto:[email protected] 19. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 20. https://yho.com/footer0 21. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 22. mailto:[email protected] 23. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 24. https://yho.com/footer0 25. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
