I am surprised, to say the least, by these answers. Are we talking about retuning to just about manage to read through some pieces to get any idea of what they sound like or for serious playing? Aren't we totally forgetting the historic recommendation to tune the top-course (in gut) as high as it will go without breaking? Best, Matthew
> On Aug 30, 2017, at 7:58, Antony M Eastwell <eastwe...@me.com> wrote: > > Sorry-incomplete message sent by mistake! > As I was saying…. > > I’ve often wondered, and experimented, with retuning a VT 10 course lute into > transitional tunings, and I feel that, as Andreas says, it can be made to > work, and is not as illogical as it sounds. You need to bear in mind the very > sharp upward “tilt” in tension typically found on the highest strings of > instruments in VT. My 10 course (67cms, tuned at A=392, all gut strings) has > course 1 (.42 gut, tension 4.18 kg), and course 2 (.50 gut, tension 3.32 > kg). Courses 3 and 4 are just over 3 kg. Retuning the top two courses to E > and C for Sharp tuning, gives tensions of 2.95 and 2.64 kg. This is not that > far from the tension of courses 3 and 4, and is playable, though not perhaps > ideal. Of course, things are not so good in Flat tuning, but are still usable > IMHO. > It’s worth remembering that for one reason or another (nylon??), we often > tune lutes to pitches that are quite high for their string length. We think > of modern G as suitable for the top string of a 60cm lute, but tenor viols > (same basic tuning) are usually in the mid 50’s (and are very often tuned at > 415 as well). My Lacote guitar with a top string at nominal E (let’s not get > onto arguments about C19th pitch!) is only 62.5 cms. I feel that the very > sharp upward scaling of the highest strings on lutes acts as compensation for > the fact that the high pitch of the top strings leaves them without the mass > to move the soundboard properly. Once you lower the pitch, this “mass > compensation” is no longer so necessary, and you get something not so far > from equal tension. I find this feels very relaxing to play on, and though it > take a while to get used to it, it saves a lot of money on gut top strings! > Having said all this, when I made a recording of music from the Wemyss book > some years back, I used two instruments-same string length, but the 6th > course of the lute for the transitional tuning pieces was a tone higher, thus > raising the pitch of the top strings by a tone! > > It is worth remembering that the 10 course lute in VT has, I think, the > largest open string range ever used on a single pegbox lute-2 octaves and a > fifth (of a major sixth for some pieces that require a nominal Bb on course > 10). That’s asking a lot of unwound bass strings-if I had been a player, lute > maker, or string maker in the early C17th, I think I would have heaved a sigh > of relief when I discovered the new tunings with their considerably reduced > open string range! > > In a number of Ms sources-the Board book, for example, you find a group of VT > pieces in among a predominantly transitional repertoire, and I wonder how > many of the original owners really changed instrument for these pieces. > I think we need to experiment before dismissing the idea. Incidentally, it > works much better with gut! > > Best wishes > > Martin > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 29 Aug 2017, at 16:03, Matthew Daillie <dail...@club-internet.fr> wrote: >> >> Well Andreas, I really don't know how you manage to tune your >> chanterelle down from g' to eb', for example and your second course >> down from d' to c' and still be able to play correctly. I certainly >> can't. Gut bass strings are certainly more tolerant of changes of pitch >> and can work at different tensions but treble strings are quite another >> matter. >> Best, >> Matthew >> On 29/08/2017 16:23, Andreas Schlegel wrote: >> >> I'm playing since years and years some transitional tunings on my 10c lute, >> norm >> ally tuned in VT, without changing any strings - and other accords nouveaux >> lute >> types which are normally tuned in the nouvel accord ordinaire (d-minor) >> withopu >> t changing any string. And it works. >> Of course the feeling changes - but I can handle it. >> If I make a concert program, I have normally one instrument in the dedff and >> the >> other in edeff and fedff tuning. For the tunings see: >> [1]http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/de/Abhandlung/Accords/Accords_Darstellung/Accor >> ds_Darstellung.html >> or >> [2]http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/en/styled-5/styled-9/index.html >> (the beginning of the translated homepage... the remaining pages and a >> better fo >> rmatted design will follow in the next months...) >> >> It's simply not thinkable that the lutenists of the transitional period >> restring >> ed their lutes for every tuning! So we have to find solutions which are near >> by >> the old practice. >> >> By the way: With gut strings it's more comfortable to change tunings than >> with m >> odern string materials. >> >> All the best, >> >> Andreas >> >> -- >> >> References >> >> 1. >> http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/de/Abhandlung/Accords/Accords_Darstellung/Accords_Darstellung.html >> 2. http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/en/styled-5/styled-9/index.html >> >> >> To get on or off this list see list information at >> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
