The Working Index, that is the product between the frequency of the
strings and the vibrating string lenght in mt, can predict when a
string start to be 'not good enought'.
I am considering here the case of a plain gut string, not a denser
versions (wound, loaded, gimped etc etc).
Generally speacking, we know that, more or less, the 6th course of a
renaissance lute can be considered the limit for the sound quality,
thus the octave is indispensable (Vihuela? In my opinion it had octaves
on the 5 and 6 courses). The Working Index of a 6th course on a lute
of 60cms at modern pitch is around 59 Hz/mt.
So, if the last bass string of the extended neck is around the same
value, an octave is necessary (we have the same working index of the
6th course) .
Which is the scale were the working index is same of the 6 course of a
lute ?
At the modern 'baroque' pitch of 415 the last bass note is a GG of
46.25 Hz so:
59/46.25= 1.27 mt
In practice we can maybe say that, generally speacking when the
extended neck start to be less than 1.20-1.30 mt and one uses plain gut
start to be necessary the use of octaves.
Of course, it is question of taste: some find that a dull sound is
still welcome, other hate that. If one switch to roped catline gut
strings the extended neck can be even a bit shorter than that.
What it is important here is not to have a black or white vision, we
are indeed in a sort of grey area were to define if a sound is good or
bad is matter of taste, which kind of strings and if the proportion of
the lutei s the right one (the 1st string is working close to the
breakage or not?) . I have considered a pactical 'rule of thumb'
having seen that the 6th course had octaves while the 5th is still
matter of taste.
Mimmo
-----Messaggio originale-----
Da: [1]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [[2]mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu]
Per conto di sterling price
Inviato: lunedì 11 dicembre 2017 22:27
A: Martin Shepherd <[3]mar...@luteshop.co.uk>; Magnus Andersson
<[4]magnusl...@gmail.com>; [5]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Oggetto: [LUTE] Re: A stringing question for Sellas E. 545
Question--what is the longest a neck extension can be and still be
able
to have octave strings? I'm making a pegbox for a baroque lute based
on
the 14 course Hoffman pegbox--the original is 115.7cm and I might
make
it a bit longer. I wont bore you with the reason I want it
longer--but
probably 120cm will do it.
Thanks,
Sterling
__________________________________________________________________
From: Martin Shepherd <[6]mar...@luteshop.co.uk>
To: Magnus Andersson <[7]magnusl...@gmail.com>;
"[8]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu"
<[9]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2017 11:32 AM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: A stringing question for Sellas E. 545
Dear Magnus and All,
A few thoughts:
I only recently realised that this instrument existed and immediately
found it puzzling. Matthew's conjecture that the neck has been
shortened removes some, but not all, of the puzzle.
In terms of the string length for the petit jeu of c.90cm, I have
recent
experience that (with double strings, as was normal on Italian
instruments) there begins to be a problem of getting a thin enough
string for the 3rd course. I wonder if that tells us something about
the pitch (nominal or absolute) at which these instruments might have
been played (I mean theorboes of 90+ cm as opposed to 80+cm).
If the neck of E545 has been shortened, perhaps that was the point at
which the basses were made double. Can anyone enlighten us as to
whether the bridge is original or has been redrilled?
The fact that there are only 6 courses on the petit jeu is entirely
consistent with all known Italian theorboes (and what little is known
from iconography about French ones, which in this case are surely
irrelevant anyway). There is no reason to hypothesise an original
state
in which there were more than 6 courses.
If the neck has been shortened, one might guess an original length
for
the grand jeu of 160-170cm, based on the proportions of extant
theorboes. It's hard to imagine double-strung bass courses of this
length - it's hard enough to imagine at 130cm - so my initial puzzle
remains.
Whatever kind of stringing one imagines (even single throughout)
there
is always going to be a big transition from the lowest of the petit
jeu
strings to the first of the long basses - that's just the nature of
the
beast.
Best wishes,
Martin
On 11/12/2017 17:23, Magnus Andersson wrote:
Dear collective wisdom,
I wonder if you might be able to help me with finding
proper strings for a theorbo I ôve commissioned.
The instrument is a theorbo by Sellas, 1640,
today housed in Paris with the label E. 545.
[1][1][10]http://collectionsdumusee.philharmoniedeparis.fr/doc/MUSEE/
016179
9
It ôs quite a spectacular instrument with
six double strings on the fretboard, at 890 mm,
and then 8 double strings for the diapasons, at 1300 mm.
It was probably shortened sometime from its original length
into this present condition.
The problem that arises is when one wants to string the upper
courses
of the diapasons. Here one needs very thin strings beginning with
0.40-0.42
for the high string of the 7th course Gg, at the string length of
ca.
1500 mm...
Any ideas would be highly appreciated.
Best wishes,
Magnus Andersson
--
References
1.
[2][11]http://collectionsdumusee.philharmoniedeparis.fr/doc/MUSEE/016
1799
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References
1.
[14]http://collectionsdumusee.philharmoniedeparis.fr/doc/MUSEE/0161799
2.
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References
1. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
2. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
3. mailto:mar...@luteshop.co.uk
4. mailto:magnusl...@gmail.com
5. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
6. mailto:mar...@luteshop.co.uk
7. mailto:magnusl...@gmail.com
8. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
9. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
10. http://collectionsdumusee.philharmoniedeparis.fr/doc/MUSEE/016179
11. http://collectionsdumusee.philharmoniedeparis.fr/doc/MUSEE/0161799
12. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
13. https://www.avast.com/antivirus
14. http://collectionsdumusee.philharmoniedeparis.fr/doc/MUSEE/0161799
15. http://collectionsdumusee.philharmoniedeparis.fr/doc/MUSEE/0161799
16. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
17. https://www.avast.com/antivirus
