I should just point out that there are no pure fifths in meantone
temperaments. The fifths are close to pure in equal temperament, just 2
cents narrow, but in meantone temperaments they are much more narrow.
I usually use 6th comma, and I do find the fifths useful as a tuning
check, but only because I know by ear how flat they should sound. I
often play (as arpeggios) a sequence:
c1c2a3, a1a2c4, d2d3a4, etc.
To check that all the fifths are equally narrow. (and the octaves are
perfect).
Martin
On 08/03/2018 12:45, Leonard Williams wrote:
I should have added--it seems to work quite well. I check perfect
fifths from open to 2nd fret on the next higher string also. The ear
tuning has, to be sure, the final say. But for starters, when things
get a bit off, the f transposition has been nice for getting the open
strings in place. When my strings are behaving, the tuning stays pretty
good, so I don't do this every time I practice.
Thanks for your input!
Leonard
-----Original Message-----
From: Matthew Daillie <[email protected]>
To: Leonard Williams <[email protected]>; Lute List
<[email protected]>
Sent: Thu, Mar 8, 2018 5:31 am
Subject: Re: [LUTE] meantone tuning tech
Hi Leonard,
This seems to be a very convoluted and hit and miss method to me. Maybe
it would be good to get back to basics (which is what you are doing
when
checking the major thirds between the fifth and third courses of your
lute).
With 1/4 comma meantone you are looking to have 8 pure, beat-less major
thirds (C-E, for example). These are narrower than equal temperament
thirds which can sound pretty awful once you get used to the purity of
major thirds. It is not always easy to hear the beats on a lute (far
less evident than with the metal strings and clear harmonics of a
harpsichord, for example) so it is generally advised to set the frets
based on calculations for your string length. You can use a calculator
such as the one provided online by Lauri Niskanen which will give you
the distances between the nut and the various frets. All you need to do
is enter the string length of your lute and place your frets
accordingly. Here's the link:
[1]https://www.niskanenlutes.com/index.php?p=frets
Once you've done that you will need to see if you require extra frets
(tastini) for notes that would not be in tune without them (such as the
first position F# on the 4th course of a lute in g'). Mean tone
distinguishes between enharmonic notes, (so D# will be lower than Eb
flat, for example) and you can't have both at the same time on the lute
and you will need to adjust the position of certain frets according to
the piece you are playing. Once your frets are set, I would suggest
tuning an a' from a tuning fork or electronic tuner and then tuning the
other courses by ear from that by using octaves. If you do not feel
comfortable tuning by ear then use the setting on your tuner to get 1/4
comma mean-tone with an Eb as you will be playing music in flat keys.
The final adjustments really do need to be made by ear, however good
your tuner and you can check the major thirds of the piece you are
playing.
Hope this helps.
Best,
Matthew
can use a pr
On 08/03/2018 02:17, Leonard Williams wrote:
> Here's a tuning method I've been experimenting with, and I'm
wondering about others' related experiences. My 8 course is nominally
in g (i.e., g treble), 1/4 comma meantone. But - since most of the
music I play is in flat keys, I set my Peterson tuner for an instrument
in F instead of C. Thus when I tune the g, the readout is d, etc. I've
also found that using a chord consisting of fret d on 3rd, e on 4th,
and f on fifth is helpful in refining the tuning and those frets.
> Any similar experiences?
>
> Best to all,
> Leonard Williams
--
References
1. https://www.niskanenlutes.com/index.php?p=frets
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