Mr. Hodgson,
You certainly have your right to disagree. Could you just satisfy my
curiosity by pointing me out the sources of the early XVII c,
describing the rules of octave?
All sources I read tells the opposite: no connection with steps of the
scale, such a thing has not even been mentioned. Only connection with
scale - natural or #/b intervals above the bass, depending not on the
step of the bass (as octave rule does), but depending on the next step
of the bass (bass movements).
I wouldn't overcomplicate mr. Probert's task, rules by Bianchiardi are
more simple than octave rule. And if one has a little idea about
Monteverdi's style, things cannot be clarified in a couple of words.
Here is Agazzari, for instance, page 7 of the PDF contains the good
example of realisation, it might be good for the beginning. Just play
and analyze.
[1]https://imslp.org/wiki/Del_Sonare_sopra'l_basso_con_tutti_li_stromen
ti_(Agazzari%2C_Agostino)
If one has time, the good idea come through the sources and get the
idea (or meet in person someone more experienced). If not, just don't
take so much care and do your best for now. As I told, I see no big
problem with d-minor tuning.
In Monteverdi's times continuo is more simple in terms of harmony, my
teachers (like Andrew Lawrence King) told me to avoid complicated
figuring most of the time.
53 or 6 chords, 7/6 and 4/3 suspensions are good solution for most of
the time (and 5/4-5/3 without 6/4 - 5/3 for most of the cadances) and
let the voice do the rest - dissonances, clashes, dischords - if it's
occurs, are stylish.
F.T.Arnold in his book "the Art of Accompaniment from a thorough-bass"
showed a lot of examples.
And good luck with this beautiful music!
K.
ÃÃ, 5 ÃõòÃ. 2020 ó., 14:02 Martyn Hodgson
<[2][email protected]>:
I can't agree with that assertion - it mostly does. But, in any
case,
I didn't wish to over-complicate the matter for Mr Probert
MH
On Wednesday, 5 February 2020, 10:53:14 GMT, Konstantin
Shchenikov
<[3][email protected]> wrote:
WARNING! Rule of the octave doesn't work at the Monteverdi's
times!
In fact, theory has changed.
In XVII c. bass movements does matter (on what interval and in
what
direction bass moves) without any correspondances with step of
the
scale. Check the rules in Bianchiardi "Breve regola per imparar a
suonare" for figuring (and preface to Viadana's "Cento concerti
ecclesiastici"). Arpeggiation is in use, check the prefaces in
Piccinini's "Libro Primo" and Kapsberger's "libro quattro di
chitarrone".
Some tips about little passages, passing notes and rhythmical
treatment
and several examples can also be found in Agazzari's "Del suonare
sopra'l basso" and Bianciardi mentioned above.
Turning to the instrument, you can use your high range, which
absents
on theorbo. But archlute has high range as well, and it's the
other
continuo instrument of XVII cent. And some archlutes could have
octave
basses. I, personally, see no problem with d-minor tuning, but
the
sound is different from archlutes, so the whole idea must be
close, but
not the same.
Good luck!
ÃÃ, 5 Ãà µà ²Ã. 2020 à ³. à ² 13:20, Martyn Hodgson
<[1][4][email protected]>:
Howard's advice is very sound.
In practice, go through the score and figure up the bass
part
using the
'rule of the octave'; and generally employ 6 chords where
the
bass is
sharpened; and also use the occasional suspension (eg 7 -
6 or
4-3) to
taste (though an occasional passing clash with the upper
lines is
perfectly acceptable in this repertoire).
Always checking, of course, with the vocal lines; so that
for
example,
bars 22-23 will be generally figured [ 6(3) - 7/5 ]
[(5)4 - #
].
Whether you play a major chord on bar 24 or a bare fifth is,
perhaps,
also a matter of taste.
Insert the usual cadential formula as necessary, for
example, a 4
- 3
in bar 27
Then simply play the chords (three parts is probably all
you'll
need)
Here's a clean version to work on
[1][2][5]http://www3.cpdl.org/wiki/images/8/82/Mont-aes.pdf
MH
On Wednesday, 5 February 2020, 07:22:51 GMT, howard posner
<[3][6][email protected]> wrote:
> On Feb 4, 2020, at 6:31 PM, Mark Probert
<[2][4][7][email protected]>
wrote:
>
> Suppose I given a piece of early
> Baroque music, take Monteverdi's duet "Ardo e scoprir"[1]
by
way of
> specific example, and I want to create a passable continuo
line
to
> support the singers (potentially with me singing one of
lines).
>
> I come armed with my lute, an a-historic Dm 13c lute, a
certain
amount
> of theory, but no real clue apart from "play the indicated
root" and
> "arpeggiate the triads".
Neither of those is necessarily a good idea, especially if
by
"play the
indicated root" you mean assuming the bass note is the root
of
the
chord. But if you know the basic rules (you're familiar with
the
rule
of the octave?) you can get most of the harmonies right
without
too
much trouble.
> Given this is akin to asking "how do you realize a bass,"
can
anyone
> point me in the direction of how you start such a journey
on a
lute?
If you want to learn how to do it, I'd start with Nigel
North's
"Continuo Playing on the Lute, Archlute and Theorbo." If you
just
want
to slap something together for a specific piece, you might
get a
realized version (which will probably be intended for piano)
and
alter
it to suit your needs.
> And if the theory is much different using a Dm lute rather
than
theorbo?
The theory doesn't change. A major chord is a major chord
and a
suspension is a suspension. You'll have higher notes than a
theorbo
has, but less volume and sustain. Sometimes this means
playing a
busier
accompaniment to keep the sound going (good luck with that
if
you're
singing at the same time).
To get on or off this list see list information at
[3][5][8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
References
1. [6][9]http://www3.cpdl.org/wiki/images/8/82/Mont-aes.pdf
2. mailto:[7][10][email protected]
3.
[8][11]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
References
1. mailto:[12][email protected]
2. [13]http://www3.cpdl.org/wiki/images/8/82/Mont-aes.pdf
3. mailto:[14][email protected]
4. mailto:[15][email protected]
5. [16]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
6. [17]http://www3.cpdl.org/wiki/images/8/82/Mont-aes.pdf
7. mailto:[18][email protected]
8. [19]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
References
1.
https://imslp.org/wiki/Del_Sonare_sopra'l_basso_con_tutti_li_stromenti_(Agazzari,_Agostino)
2. mailto:[email protected]
3. mailto:[email protected]
4. mailto:[email protected]
5. http://www3.cpdl.org/wiki/images/8/82/Mont-aes.pdf
6. mailto:[email protected]
7. mailto:[email protected]
8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
9. http://www3.cpdl.org/wiki/images/8/82/Mont-aes.pdf
10. mailto:[email protected]
11. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
12. mailto:[email protected]
13. http://www3.cpdl.org/wiki/images/8/82/Mont-aes.pdf
14. mailto:[email protected]
15. mailto:[email protected]
16. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
17. http://www3.cpdl.org/wiki/images/8/82/Mont-aes.pdf
18. mailto:[email protected]
19. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
