I don't know what the drag technique is? do you have a link or reference? thanks , steve
On Mon, May 16, 2016 at 11:01 PM, Brian White <[email protected]> wrote: > I have never tried the drag technique but it looks straightforward enough. > Are the pins too fine for that? > > I guess the hard part must actually be just getting the legs lined up > exactly in the first place. > > I have soldered fine legs by hand with a pencil the regular individual way > but each time it was just to tap a few individual legs not to do all 40 or > more. Like I added an audio line-in jack to a laptop where the audio chip > had the pins, but the laptop wasn't using them. I just needed to connect > fine wrapping wire to maybe 3 pins. > > Schmartboard makes little breakout/adapter/carrier boards where the solder > pads are actually recessed, and the chip legs drop in to the solder pads, > specifically so that you can hand solder them. I guess there's no way to get > boards made like that. > > -- > bkw > > On May 16, 2016 9:54 PM, "Stephen Adolph" <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> no, i have not, mostly because I feel like they can't do the M100 >> machining. I hand grind the PCBs for M100 to expose the large vias so >> they can engage the molex. So, that's an issue. Next is just the $$ >> per hour of the offshore assembling. If you have a contact Ken, I >> could actually get *facts*. >> PC-8201 is pretty easy, but the pins needed are kinda special from >> what I can tell. I only have 50 of those carriers in my parts pile, >> and I never see them on ebay. >> steve >> >> >> On Mon, May 16, 2016 at 8:50 PM, Ken Pettit <[email protected]> wrote: >> > Hey Steve, >> > >> > Did you ever look into having an assembly house build these? >> > >> > Ken >> > >> > >> > On 5/16/16 6:48 PM, Stephen Adolph wrote: >> >> >> >> ..re REX. IF I could release it to oshpark I would. In fact the >> >> boards are there. The problem is... I doubt people will be successful >> >> soldering fine pitch. Do you want to try? The chips can be purchased >> >> on ebay or digikey. >> >> If you want to try I will release the board design(s). >> >> >> >> Steve >> >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, May 16, 2016 at 8:33 PM, Brian White <[email protected]> >> >> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> The figtronix link broke because I asked him a question about his main >> >>> rom >> >>> adapter a couple weeks ago, and he updated the board, just the >> >>> silkscreen >> >>> not anything functional, and he removed the old link and made a new >> >>> one. >> >>> I >> >>> don't know if that's just the way oshpark works or if he's just doing >> >>> something wrong. >> >>> >> >>> He ended up doing a bunch of stuff that I wanted for free and without >> >>> asking, so I wasn't going to complain about a little thing like it's >> >>> annoying having to keep finding out the new link! >> >>> >> >>> We ended up trading a lot of emails and he whipped up both the option >> >>> rom >> >>> board and the programmer adapter after I showed him the club100 links >> >>> to >> >>> the >> >>> old EME option rom module. There were several rapid iterations of both >> >>> of >> >>> those and he did the same thing each time with those too, broke the >> >>> existing >> >>> link and made a new one. And it takes forever before they show up in >> >>> the >> >>> oshpark search too. >> >>> >> >>> (Oh yeah, don't trust that search. Find any working link to any board >> >>> by >> >>> that guy, then click on the guy's name, and THERE you see all his >> >>> other >> >>> boards, including all 3 M100-related, even though they don't show up >> >>> in >> >>> the >> >>> search.) >> >>> >> >>> Anyway there's lot's of ways to skin the same cat of course. >> >>> >> >>> I like your board too. I actually assembled one of your boards too, >> >>> but >> >>> I'm >> >>> using the figtronix at the moment, because I don't want a combined >> >>> system >> >>> and option rom, I want to be able to use the external accessible >> >>> option >> >>> rom >> >>> socket to swap roms and install commercial roms, and I want the system >> >>> rom >> >>> to be socketed and re-programmable or at least swappable. I actually >> >>> found >> >>> ceramic uv-erasable clcc 27C256, but even replacing OTP plcc ones is >> >>> better >> >>> than needing a test-clip. >> >>> >> >>> One thing I should verify, maybe there IS actually room to solder your >> >>> board >> >>> on the motherboard and put a dip socket on the adapter, then trim the >> >>> legs >> >>> of the eprom a little so the eprom sits lower in the socket, does the >> >>> resulting stack come out 0.55" or shorter? That would meet all my same >> >>> wishes above. Takes a standard eprom, and the eprom is removable and >> >>> reprogrammable with no special adapters. >> >>> >> >>> Ideally I'd like both the main and option roms to use the same kind of >> >>> eprom. not plcc in one and soic in the other. There is just barely >> >>> vertical >> >>> room for a low profile plcc socket in the option rom, but low profile >> >>> plcc >> >>> sockets are surface mount so soldering them at home is not simple like >> >>> the >> >>> regular socket with thru pins. I have old commercial option roms that >> >>> used a >> >>> full dip28 eprom on a board. it's a tight fit but it works. The holes >> >>> for >> >>> the eprom are actually pulled in a little closer than the proper dip28 >> >>> spacing, squished inside the half-holes on the edges which are at >> >>> dip28 >> >>> spacing. No room for a socket, so a board like that you could only >> >>> re-program with either a test clip or a programming adapter, but >> >>> that's >> >>> no >> >>> worse than what you already need for the soic board. But at least then >> >>> that, >> >>> along with your main rom board, means you'd have the same kind of part >> >>> on >> >>> both system and option roms. >> >>> >> >>> I mean IDEALLY of course, I'd love a REX, but I emailed the address on >> >>> club100 a couple times and never got any answer, and the plans for REX >> >>> aren't published like on oshpark, so oh well. Even if by a miracle one >> >>> REX >> >>> became available from somewhere, I still probably wouldn't want to >> >>> invest >> >>> time hacking with it if no one else could ever make use of the >> >>> results. >> >>> If >> >>> the REX were reproducible at will and anyone could have one, THEN it >> >>> would >> >>> be a worthwhile target for hacking/developing. If not, then I'd rather >> >>> just >> >>> start a new public/open design even if it's cruder and reinventing the >> >>> wheel. >> >>> >> >>> (And now that I say that, I realize I sure like my MISE, and that's >> >>> basically in the same boat. The design is not public. The guy just >> >>> happens >> >>> to be actively producing and supporting it right now. So maybe I'm >> >>> being >> >>> inconsistent. At least I made my enclosure for the MISE public, >> >>> including >> >>> a >> >>> slick non-trivial arrangement to hold the cf card reader which does >> >>> not >> >>> have >> >>> any nice mounting holes or anything, if I do say so myself. ;) ) >> >>> >> >>> In the 102 of course I just stuck a plain socket in and a plain dip >> >>> 27c256. >> >>> No complications there. Same goes for late m100 too apparently though >> >>> both >> >>> my m100's needed the adapter. >> >>> >> >>> -- >> >>> bkw >> >>> >> >>> On Mon, May 16, 2016 at 3:54 PM, Mike Stein <[email protected]> >> >>> wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>> Thanks for posting those links. When I mentioned the various options >> >>>> for >> >>>> adding/upgrading System and Option ROMs I wanted to include this one >> >>>> but >> >>>> at >> >>>> the time the link at Oshpark didn't seem to work; I couldn't find any >> >>>> mention on his Figtronix site either so I assumed they were no longer >> >>>> available for some reason. Glad to see they're back and he's added a >> >>>> programming adapter. >> >>>> >> >>>> One advantage of those boards over the board Bill and Steve are >> >>>> discussing >> >>>> is that in a T102 you can add an Option ROM without removing the >> >>>> System >> >>>> ROM >> >>>> chip; however, at the risk of being immodest I should point out what >> >>>> I >> >>>> think >> >>>> are some advantages of the 'Combo' board: >> >>>> >> >>>> Whether you want to upgrade the System ROM and/or add an Option ROM >> >>>> in >> >>>> either an old or a new M100/T102 you use the same board; no need for >> >>>> separate System and Option ROM adapters. >> >>>> >> >>>> To (re)program the IC in an 'old' M100 you'll need another adapter to >> >>>> convert the pinout back to standard JEDEC; no problem, just assemble >> >>>> another >> >>>> adapter 'in reverse' as it were, with a socket. >> >>>> >> >>>> So the one PCB essentially does the same job as all three different >> >>>> Figtronix ones; since you get a minimum of six boards you might save >> >>>> some >> >>>> money. >> >>>> >> >>>> Finally, since it uses a standard 28-pin socket if you want to play >> >>>> around >> >>>> with the System ROM code without burning/replacing/reprogramming the >> >>>> E(E)PROM every time, replace it with a non-volatile RAM chip like the >> >>>> Dallas >> >>>> DS1230Y or the FM1808 FRAM and a minor mod to connect R/W and you can >> >>>> POKE >> >>>> around all you want.. >> >>>> >> >>>> m >> >>>> >> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >> >>>> From: Brian White >> >>>> To: Model 100 Discussion >> >>>> Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2016 11:42 PM >> >>>> Subject: Re: [M100] ROM burning questions >> >>>> >> >>>> ...Re-post without pic... >> >>>> >> >>>> Old m100 takes a non-standard pinout, new m100 and all t102 takes a >> >>>> standard 27C256 pinout. >> >>>> >> >>>> I just did an old m100 using this plcc adapter: >> >>>> >> >>>> https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/toQDqmVV >> >>>> >> >>>> I burned the Tandy 102 rom with y2k patches from the rex page on >> >>>> bitchin100. >> >>>> >> >>>> The board is easy to assemble except the only hitch is you have to >> >>>> find >> >>>> pin headers that have thinner round pins rather than the more common >> >>>> square. >> >>>> >> >>>> If you have a "new" m100, the chip number on the rom will not match >> >>>> the >> >>>> number silkscreened on this board. In that case you don't need any >> >>>> adapter, >> >>>> just put in a 27C256 dip28 directly, same as for T102. >> >>>> >> >>>> https://goo.gl/photos/GUKXgxxVGaUVt57k9 >> >>>> >> >>>> -- >> >>>> bkw >> >>> >> >>> >> >
