https://youtu.be/erb6-i54tbo
Or search "drag solder" and you get lots of others that go into more detail. -- bkw On May 16, 2016 11:15 PM, "Stephen Adolph" <[email protected]> wrote: > I don't know what the drag technique is? do you have a link or reference? > thanks , steve > > > On Mon, May 16, 2016 at 11:01 PM, Brian White <[email protected]> wrote: > > I have never tried the drag technique but it looks straightforward > enough. > > Are the pins too fine for that? > > > > I guess the hard part must actually be just getting the legs lined up > > exactly in the first place. > > > > I have soldered fine legs by hand with a pencil the regular individual > way > > but each time it was just to tap a few individual legs not to do all 40 > or > > more. Like I added an audio line-in jack to a laptop where the audio chip > > had the pins, but the laptop wasn't using them. I just needed to connect > > fine wrapping wire to maybe 3 pins. > > > > Schmartboard makes little breakout/adapter/carrier boards where the > solder > > pads are actually recessed, and the chip legs drop in to the solder pads, > > specifically so that you can hand solder them. I guess there's no way to > get > > boards made like that. > > > > -- > > bkw > > > > On May 16, 2016 9:54 PM, "Stephen Adolph" <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >> no, i have not, mostly because I feel like they can't do the M100 > >> machining. I hand grind the PCBs for M100 to expose the large vias so > >> they can engage the molex. So, that's an issue. Next is just the $$ > >> per hour of the offshore assembling. If you have a contact Ken, I > >> could actually get *facts*. > >> PC-8201 is pretty easy, but the pins needed are kinda special from > >> what I can tell. I only have 50 of those carriers in my parts pile, > >> and I never see them on ebay. > >> steve > >> > >> > >> On Mon, May 16, 2016 at 8:50 PM, Ken Pettit <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > Hey Steve, > >> > > >> > Did you ever look into having an assembly house build these? > >> > > >> > Ken > >> > > >> > > >> > On 5/16/16 6:48 PM, Stephen Adolph wrote: > >> >> > >> >> ..re REX. IF I could release it to oshpark I would. In fact the > >> >> boards are there. The problem is... I doubt people will be > successful > >> >> soldering fine pitch. Do you want to try? The chips can be > purchased > >> >> on ebay or digikey. > >> >> If you want to try I will release the board design(s). > >> >> > >> >> Steve > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> On Mon, May 16, 2016 at 8:33 PM, Brian White <[email protected]> > >> >> wrote: > >> >>> > >> >>> The figtronix link broke because I asked him a question about his > main > >> >>> rom > >> >>> adapter a couple weeks ago, and he updated the board, just the > >> >>> silkscreen > >> >>> not anything functional, and he removed the old link and made a new > >> >>> one. > >> >>> I > >> >>> don't know if that's just the way oshpark works or if he's just > doing > >> >>> something wrong. > >> >>> > >> >>> He ended up doing a bunch of stuff that I wanted for free and > without > >> >>> asking, so I wasn't going to complain about a little thing like it's > >> >>> annoying having to keep finding out the new link! > >> >>> > >> >>> We ended up trading a lot of emails and he whipped up both the > option > >> >>> rom > >> >>> board and the programmer adapter after I showed him the club100 > links > >> >>> to > >> >>> the > >> >>> old EME option rom module. There were several rapid iterations of > both > >> >>> of > >> >>> those and he did the same thing each time with those too, broke the > >> >>> existing > >> >>> link and made a new one. And it takes forever before they show up in > >> >>> the > >> >>> oshpark search too. > >> >>> > >> >>> (Oh yeah, don't trust that search. Find any working link to any > board > >> >>> by > >> >>> that guy, then click on the guy's name, and THERE you see all his > >> >>> other > >> >>> boards, including all 3 M100-related, even though they don't show up > >> >>> in > >> >>> the > >> >>> search.) > >> >>> > >> >>> Anyway there's lot's of ways to skin the same cat of course. > >> >>> > >> >>> I like your board too. I actually assembled one of your boards too, > >> >>> but > >> >>> I'm > >> >>> using the figtronix at the moment, because I don't want a combined > >> >>> system > >> >>> and option rom, I want to be able to use the external accessible > >> >>> option > >> >>> rom > >> >>> socket to swap roms and install commercial roms, and I want the > system > >> >>> rom > >> >>> to be socketed and re-programmable or at least swappable. I actually > >> >>> found > >> >>> ceramic uv-erasable clcc 27C256, but even replacing OTP plcc ones is > >> >>> better > >> >>> than needing a test-clip. > >> >>> > >> >>> One thing I should verify, maybe there IS actually room to solder > your > >> >>> board > >> >>> on the motherboard and put a dip socket on the adapter, then trim > the > >> >>> legs > >> >>> of the eprom a little so the eprom sits lower in the socket, does > the > >> >>> resulting stack come out 0.55" or shorter? That would meet all my > same > >> >>> wishes above. Takes a standard eprom, and the eprom is removable and > >> >>> reprogrammable with no special adapters. > >> >>> > >> >>> Ideally I'd like both the main and option roms to use the same kind > of > >> >>> eprom. not plcc in one and soic in the other. There is just barely > >> >>> vertical > >> >>> room for a low profile plcc socket in the option rom, but low > profile > >> >>> plcc > >> >>> sockets are surface mount so soldering them at home is not simple > like > >> >>> the > >> >>> regular socket with thru pins. I have old commercial option roms > that > >> >>> used a > >> >>> full dip28 eprom on a board. it's a tight fit but it works. The > holes > >> >>> for > >> >>> the eprom are actually pulled in a little closer than the proper > dip28 > >> >>> spacing, squished inside the half-holes on the edges which are at > >> >>> dip28 > >> >>> spacing. No room for a socket, so a board like that you could only > >> >>> re-program with either a test clip or a programming adapter, but > >> >>> that's > >> >>> no > >> >>> worse than what you already need for the soic board. But at least > then > >> >>> that, > >> >>> along with your main rom board, means you'd have the same kind of > part > >> >>> on > >> >>> both system and option roms. > >> >>> > >> >>> I mean IDEALLY of course, I'd love a REX, but I emailed the address > on > >> >>> club100 a couple times and never got any answer, and the plans for > REX > >> >>> aren't published like on oshpark, so oh well. Even if by a miracle > one > >> >>> REX > >> >>> became available from somewhere, I still probably wouldn't want to > >> >>> invest > >> >>> time hacking with it if no one else could ever make use of the > >> >>> results. > >> >>> If > >> >>> the REX were reproducible at will and anyone could have one, THEN it > >> >>> would > >> >>> be a worthwhile target for hacking/developing. If not, then I'd > rather > >> >>> just > >> >>> start a new public/open design even if it's cruder and reinventing > the > >> >>> wheel. > >> >>> > >> >>> (And now that I say that, I realize I sure like my MISE, and that's > >> >>> basically in the same boat. The design is not public. The guy just > >> >>> happens > >> >>> to be actively producing and supporting it right now. So maybe I'm > >> >>> being > >> >>> inconsistent. At least I made my enclosure for the MISE public, > >> >>> including > >> >>> a > >> >>> slick non-trivial arrangement to hold the cf card reader which does > >> >>> not > >> >>> have > >> >>> any nice mounting holes or anything, if I do say so myself. ;) ) > >> >>> > >> >>> In the 102 of course I just stuck a plain socket in and a plain dip > >> >>> 27c256. > >> >>> No complications there. Same goes for late m100 too apparently > though > >> >>> both > >> >>> my m100's needed the adapter. > >> >>> > >> >>> -- > >> >>> bkw > >> >>> > >> >>> On Mon, May 16, 2016 at 3:54 PM, Mike Stein <[email protected]> > >> >>> wrote: > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Thanks for posting those links. When I mentioned the various > options > >> >>>> for > >> >>>> adding/upgrading System and Option ROMs I wanted to include this > one > >> >>>> but > >> >>>> at > >> >>>> the time the link at Oshpark didn't seem to work; I couldn't find > any > >> >>>> mention on his Figtronix site either so I assumed they were no > longer > >> >>>> available for some reason. Glad to see they're back and he's added > a > >> >>>> programming adapter. > >> >>>> > >> >>>> One advantage of those boards over the board Bill and Steve are > >> >>>> discussing > >> >>>> is that in a T102 you can add an Option ROM without removing the > >> >>>> System > >> >>>> ROM > >> >>>> chip; however, at the risk of being immodest I should point out > what > >> >>>> I > >> >>>> think > >> >>>> are some advantages of the 'Combo' board: > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Whether you want to upgrade the System ROM and/or add an Option ROM > >> >>>> in > >> >>>> either an old or a new M100/T102 you use the same board; no need > for > >> >>>> separate System and Option ROM adapters. > >> >>>> > >> >>>> To (re)program the IC in an 'old' M100 you'll need another adapter > to > >> >>>> convert the pinout back to standard JEDEC; no problem, just > assemble > >> >>>> another > >> >>>> adapter 'in reverse' as it were, with a socket. > >> >>>> > >> >>>> So the one PCB essentially does the same job as all three different > >> >>>> Figtronix ones; since you get a minimum of six boards you might > save > >> >>>> some > >> >>>> money. > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Finally, since it uses a standard 28-pin socket if you want to play > >> >>>> around > >> >>>> with the System ROM code without burning/replacing/reprogramming > the > >> >>>> E(E)PROM every time, replace it with a non-volatile RAM chip like > the > >> >>>> Dallas > >> >>>> DS1230Y or the FM1808 FRAM and a minor mod to connect R/W and you > can > >> >>>> POKE > >> >>>> around all you want.. > >> >>>> > >> >>>> m > >> >>>> > >> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >> >>>> From: Brian White > >> >>>> To: Model 100 Discussion > >> >>>> Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2016 11:42 PM > >> >>>> Subject: Re: [M100] ROM burning questions > >> >>>> > >> >>>> ...Re-post without pic... > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Old m100 takes a non-standard pinout, new m100 and all t102 takes a > >> >>>> standard 27C256 pinout. > >> >>>> > >> >>>> I just did an old m100 using this plcc adapter: > >> >>>> > >> >>>> https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/toQDqmVV > >> >>>> > >> >>>> I burned the Tandy 102 rom with y2k patches from the rex page on > >> >>>> bitchin100. > >> >>>> > >> >>>> The board is easy to assemble except the only hitch is you have to > >> >>>> find > >> >>>> pin headers that have thinner round pins rather than the more > common > >> >>>> square. > >> >>>> > >> >>>> If you have a "new" m100, the chip number on the rom will not match > >> >>>> the > >> >>>> number silkscreened on this board. In that case you don't need any > >> >>>> adapter, > >> >>>> just put in a 27C256 dip28 directly, same as for T102. > >> >>>> > >> >>>> https://goo.gl/photos/GUKXgxxVGaUVt57k9 > >> >>>> > >> >>>> -- > >> >>>> bkw > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> > >
