On Thu, Mar 15, 2018 at 8:13 PM, Fugu ME100 <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Frank > > How did you perform the current drain tests?
I've left one test module with the fully charged battery of my M10. It drained the battery in a little more than a day. It was not an intended test the first time, it was a design error on my side. I then made a test setup to measure the current drain on a 3.3V standby condition and my first (wrong) logic design was allowing the ram chip drain about 1 mA instead of the correct 1 uA (or usually less) when the chip select(s) are held at the correct level (usually between 0.2V from the opposite rail of the active level). I then changed design. I've made more than 70 8K modules so far, all have been tested for < 4 uA current draw in standby conditions (most of the times, they end under 0.1uA which is my test setup measure limit). > > On 15/3/18, 10:27 AM, "M100 on behalf of Francesco Messineo" > <[email protected] on behalf of > [email protected]> wrote: > >>On Thu, Mar 15, 2018 at 6:08 PM, Mike Stein <[email protected]> wrote: >>> Yeah, there are a number of ways to deal with the non-standard RAM >>>modules >>> in an M100; the pin spacing of the modules is .75 instead of the >>>standard >>> .60, so you will probably have to make a little adapter board in any >>>case. >>> >>spacing is actually 700 mils >> >>> A self-contained module has to combine the four discrete chip selects >>>into >>> one, and also re-encode them into the binary upper two addresses. There >>>are >>> various ways of doing that and I have some of the commercial circuits >>> somewhere but can't find them at the moment. >>> >>> One way would be a priority encoder as Fugu suggests. His 32K idea is >>>clever >>> and you could just used diodes to combine the chip selects; as a matter >>>of >>> fact you can also use an 8K chip and use diodes for the encoding >>>instead of >>> the encoder IC. >> >>A word of warning about using diodes to combine the selects: all the >>low power cmos rams need close to Vdd or Vss levels on the select to >>have the lowest current consumption when in sleep mode (Vdd circa 3V >>inside the M100). >>If the ram chip doesn't go in the correct standby mode, the internal >>battery of the M100 is drained in about one day instead of the usual >>one month (tests done in my Olivetti M10 several times). >> >> >>Frank >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Fugu ME100 >>> To: [email protected] >>> Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2018 5:14 PM >>> Subject: Re: [M100] 8K RAM Chip >>> >>> If you did not want to use the Libero method you could use a 74HC148 (or >>> similar) 8 to 3 line priority decoder and put the 4 CSx- lines into the >>> upper or lower 4 inputs of the Œ148. That would recreate 2 address >>>lines and >>> a new CS- for the 8Kx8 SRAM. It could all mount on a proto-board and >>>not >>> require any 'soldering to' the M100 :) I would guess the NEC board >>>uses a >>> similar method but with an HC149 8-to-8 line priority encoder. >>> >>> Alternatively use a 32Kx8 SRAM and waste 3/4 of the space, but it would >>> still need the CSx- lines ANDed to generate the SRAM CS-. Again no >>>soldering >>> on the M100 required. >>> >>> >>> >>> From: M100 <[email protected]> on behalf of Mike Stein >>> <[email protected]> >>> Reply-To: <[email protected]> >>> Date: Wednesday, March 14, 2018 at 12:19 PM >>> To: <[email protected]> >>> Subject: Re: [M100] 8K RAM Chip >>> >>> It needs more than just remapping the signals; the required upper two >>> address lines are not available on the sockets so you either need to add >>> logic to recreate them or modify the main board. >>> >>> m >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Gregory McGill >>> To: [email protected] >>> Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2018 1:22 PM >>> Subject: Re: [M100] 8K RAM Chip >>> >>> thanks! It seems like we should be able to use the 8x8 chip from the 102 >>> with some kludging of lines.. they are pretty close.. >>> >>> Greg >>> >>> On Wed, Mar 14, 2018 at 10:08 AM, Brian White <[email protected]> >>>wrote: >>>> >>>> There are at least a few different "build your own ram upgrade" >>>>articles >>>> on club100 and other archives of old forum posts, and in magazines too >>>>I >>>> think but those are hard to search. >>>> >>>> Here's one that is not one of the old original ones I was thinking of, >>>>but >>>> looks ok. >>>> >>>> >>>>https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fdigilan >>>>der.libero.it%2Frar2k%2FTRS80%2FMemory24k.html&data=02%7C01%7C%7C048c022 >>>>979894132d34008d58a9a0491%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6 >>>>36567316455373249&sdata=M401o8EYP5VKZbt6sd4xlFFLtEzMNxzZypxq02jdHtA%3D&r >>>>eserved=0 >>>> >>>> I have some NEC modules that work that I assume must have originally >>>>been >>>> meant for nec 8201a. They are a little pcb with a single ram chip and >>>>an >>>> additional chip probably a decoder of some sort to consume 4 >>>>chip-enable >>>> lines. I could take some photos of it and maybe it's circuit could be >>>> reverse engineered from that. >>>> >>>> >>>>https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fphotos >>>>.app.goo.gl%2FZQle2id7AMWdX2bC3&data=02%7C01%7C%7C048c022979894132d34008 >>>>d58a9a0491%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6365673164553732 >>>>49&sdata=U1zwRxS%2BqcGGwPwxZaDIUlpa3LnVMkq5gj5%2F5NZFThU%3D&reserved=0 >>>> >>>> Another option is QUAD, which is a thing that installs in the bus >>>>socket >>>> and displaces the internal ram with it's own full 32K, plus 3 more >>>>banks of >>>> 32K that you can switch between. Although you can't get a quad right >>>>now. >>>> Steven Adolph is testing his latest revision of the design and it's in >>>> between right now. He found problems with the old version and so >>>>removed it >>>> from oshpark, and th new version is not yet verified. >>>> >>>> But assuming that comes along sooner or later, that would upgrade you >>>>to >>>> 32K the same as if you had installed all 4 possible modules inside. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> bkw >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Mar 14, 2018, 11:14 AM Gregory McGill <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> ok is there a source for the 100 chips? or a pcb? >>>>> >>>>> Greg >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Mar 14, 2018 at 12:02 AM, Fugu ME100 <[email protected]> >>>>>wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Just the 102, it uses a standard pin out. The 100 uses a special RAM >>>>>> module. >>>>>> >>>>>> From: M100 <[email protected]> on behalf of Gregory >>>>>> McGill <[email protected]> >>>>>> Reply-To: <[email protected]> >>>>>> Date: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 at 10:58 PM >>>>>> To: <[email protected]> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [M100] 8K RAM Chip >>>>>> >>>>>> oh wait these are 32x8 :) are these ones on ebay for the 100 or >>>>>>102? or >>>>>> both? >>>>>> >>>>>> Greg >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Mar 9, 2018 at 7:33 PM, Gregory McGill >>>>>><[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> if you have the pinouts I have a bunch of 8x8 srams around for TI99 >>>>>>> projects >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Greg >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 9, 2018 at 6:11 PM, Ken Pettit <[email protected]> >>>>>>>wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Ahh, I see now the original email stated 102. So yeah, those will >>>>>>>> work. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Ken >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 3/9/18 6:09 PM, Fugu ME100 wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> More if it was R/S :) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This is the one >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fw >>>>>>>>>ww.ebay.com%2Fitm%2F1-TOSHIBA-TC5565PL-15-64K-8Kx8-SRAM-CMOS-STATIC >>>>>>>>>-RA&data=02%7C01%7C%7C048c022979894132d34008d58a9a0491%7C84df9e7fe9 >>>>>>>>>f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636567316455373249&sdata=11PwB0A2j >>>>>>>>>z5EIlgU2HQcPAEA7LwIMWh28jGAdm2trv0%3D&reserved=0 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>M-5V-150NS-28-PIN-PDIP/321974484773?hash=item4af72cbf25:g:ldEAAOSwG >>>>>>>>>otWlWd9 >>>>>>>>> you mean? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 9/3/18, 6:07 PM, "M100 on behalf of Peter Vollan" >>>>>>>>> <[email protected] on behalf of >>>>>>>>>[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Wow, a quick check reveals a 8kX8 SRAM on ebay for $3. Didn't >>>>>>>>>>those >>>>>>>>>> "memory modules" cost about $30? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 9 March 2018 at 17:57, Chris Kmiec <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Great, I'll go looking on the intrawebs :) >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> You don't happen to have another REX, do you? :) >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 9, 2018 at 7:01 PM, Fugu ME100 <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> The chips are available they are standard 8Kx8 SRAM. Should be >>>>>>>>>>>> able to >>>>>>>>>>>> find some on line. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately the QUAD is only for the Model 100, it will not >>>>>>>>>>>>fit >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> 102. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Congratulations on your new addition :) >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> From: M100 <[email protected]> on behalf of >>>>>>>>>>>>Chris >>>>>>>>>>>> Kmiec >>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>> Reply-To: <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Friday, March 9, 2018 at 4:33 PM >>>>>>>>>>>> To: <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [M100] 8K RAM Chip >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Are these available anywhere, or do I have to find a donor >>>>>>>>>>>>system? >>>>>>>>>>>> Just >>>>>>>>>>>> got a like-new 102, but no memory expansion. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I'm assuming QUAD is no longer being made/sold? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> On Mar 14, 2018 11:14 AM, "Gregory McGill" <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> ok is there a source for the 100 chips? or a pcb? >>>> >>>> Greg >>>> >>>> On Wed, Mar 14, 2018 at 12:02 AM, Fugu ME100 <[email protected]> >>>>wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Just the 102, it uses a standard pin out. The 100 uses a special RAM >>>>> module. >>>>> >>>>> From: M100 <[email protected]> on behalf of Gregory >>>>> McGill <[email protected]> >>>>> Reply-To: <[email protected]> >>>>> Date: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 at 10:58 PM >>>>> To: <[email protected]> >>>>> Subject: Re: [M100] 8K RAM Chip >>>>> >>>>> oh wait these are 32x8 :) are these ones on ebay for the 100 or 102? >>>>>or >>>>> both? >>>>> >>>>> Greg >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Mar 9, 2018 at 7:33 PM, Gregory McGill >>>>><[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> if you have the pinouts I have a bunch of 8x8 srams around for TI99 >>>>>> projects >>>>>> >>>>>> Greg >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Mar 9, 2018 at 6:11 PM, Ken Pettit <[email protected]> >>>>>>wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ahh, I see now the original email stated 102. So yeah, those will >>>>>>> work. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ken >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 3/9/18 6:09 PM, Fugu ME100 wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> More if it was R/S :) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This is the one >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fww >>>>>>>>w.ebay.com%2Fitm%2F1-TOSHIBA-TC5565PL-15-64K-8Kx8-SRAM-CMOS-STATIC-R >>>>>>>>A&data=02%7C01%7C%7C048c022979894132d34008d58a9a0491%7C84df9e7fe9f64 >>>>>>>>0afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636567316455373249&sdata=11PwB0A2jz5EI >>>>>>>>lgU2HQcPAEA7LwIMWh28jGAdm2trv0%3D&reserved=0 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>M-5V-150NS-28-PIN-PDIP/321974484773?hash=item4af72cbf25:g:ldEAAOSwGo >>>>>>>>tWlWd9 >>>>>>>> you mean? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 9/3/18, 6:07 PM, "M100 on behalf of Peter Vollan" >>>>>>>> <[email protected] on behalf of >>>>>>>>[email protected]> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Wow, a quick check reveals a 8kX8 SRAM on ebay for $3. Didn't >>>>>>>>>those >>>>>>>>> "memory modules" cost about $30? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 9 March 2018 at 17:57, Chris Kmiec <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Great, I'll go looking on the intrawebs :) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> You don't happen to have another REX, do you? :) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 9, 2018 at 7:01 PM, Fugu ME100 <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The chips are available they are standard 8Kx8 SRAM. Should be >>>>>>>>>>> able to >>>>>>>>>>> find some on line. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately the QUAD is only for the Model 100, it will not >>>>>>>>>>>fit >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> 102. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Congratulations on your new addition :) >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> From: M100 <[email protected]> on behalf of >>>>>>>>>>>Chris >>>>>>>>>>> Kmiec >>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>> Reply-To: <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>> Date: Friday, March 9, 2018 at 4:33 PM >>>>>>>>>>> To: <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [M100] 8K RAM Chip >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Are these available anywhere, or do I have to find a donor >>>>>>>>>>>system? >>>>>>>>>>> Just >>>>>>>>>>> got a like-new 102, but no memory expansion. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I'm assuming QUAD is no longer being made/sold? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> > >
