On Thu, Mar 15, 2018 at 8:57 PM, Fugu ME100 <[email protected]> wrote: > So this uses a test set up rather than the laptop? That makes it much > easier to to work on :)
I decided to make an external test setup after I've nearly ruined the RAM socket in my M10. I could roughly estimate the current consumption by looking at the Voltage drop on the backup battery when a module was inserted. > > I built a T200 RAM module using the FET method which allows the CS- lines > to pull up nearly to Vdd, I was just curious as to how well they were > working. > > On 15/3/18, 12:23 PM, "M100 on behalf of Francesco Messineo" > <[email protected] on behalf of > [email protected]> wrote: > >>On Thu, Mar 15, 2018 at 8:13 PM, Fugu ME100 <[email protected]> wrote: >>> Hi Frank >>> >>> How did you perform the current drain tests? >> >>I've left one test module with the fully charged battery of my M10. >>It drained the battery in a little more than a day. It was not an >>intended test the first time, it was a design error on my side. >>I then made a test setup to measure the current drain on a 3.3V >>standby condition and my first (wrong) logic design was allowing the >>ram chip drain about 1 mA instead of the correct 1 uA (or usually >>less) when the chip select(s) are held at the correct level (usually >>between 0.2V from the opposite rail of the active level). >>I then changed design. >>I've made more than 70 8K modules so far, all have been tested for < 4 >>uA current draw in standby conditions (most of the times, they end >>under 0.1uA which is my test setup measure limit). >> >> >>> >>> On 15/3/18, 10:27 AM, "M100 on behalf of Francesco Messineo" >>> <[email protected] on behalf of >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>>On Thu, Mar 15, 2018 at 6:08 PM, Mike Stein <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> Yeah, there are a number of ways to deal with the non-standard RAM >>>>>modules >>>>> in an M100; the pin spacing of the modules is .75 instead of the >>>>>standard >>>>> .60, so you will probably have to make a little adapter board in any >>>>>case. >>>>> >>>>spacing is actually 700 mils >>>> >>>>> A self-contained module has to combine the four discrete chip selects >>>>>into >>>>> one, and also re-encode them into the binary upper two addresses. >>>>>There >>>>>are >>>>> various ways of doing that and I have some of the commercial circuits >>>>> somewhere but can't find them at the moment. >>>>> >>>>> One way would be a priority encoder as Fugu suggests. His 32K idea is >>>>>clever >>>>> and you could just used diodes to combine the chip selects; as a >>>>>matter >>>>>of >>>>> fact you can also use an 8K chip and use diodes for the encoding >>>>>instead of >>>>> the encoder IC. >>>> >>>>A word of warning about using diodes to combine the selects: all the >>>>low power cmos rams need close to Vdd or Vss levels on the select to >>>>have the lowest current consumption when in sleep mode (Vdd circa 3V >>>>inside the M100). >>>>If the ram chip doesn't go in the correct standby mode, the internal >>>>battery of the M100 is drained in about one day instead of the usual >>>>one month (tests done in my Olivetti M10 several times). >>>> >>>> >>>>Frank >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: Fugu ME100 >>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2018 5:14 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [M100] 8K RAM Chip >>>>> >>>>> If you did not want to use the Libero method you could use a 74HC148 >>>>>(or >>>>> similar) 8 to 3 line priority decoder and put the 4 CSx- lines into >>>>>the >>>>> upper or lower 4 inputs of the Œ148. That would recreate 2 address >>>>>lines and >>>>> a new CS- for the 8Kx8 SRAM. It could all mount on a proto-board and >>>>>not >>>>> require any 'soldering to' the M100 :) I would guess the NEC board >>>>>uses a >>>>> similar method but with an HC149 8-to-8 line priority encoder. >>>>> >>>>> Alternatively use a 32Kx8 SRAM and waste 3/4 of the space, but it >>>>>would >>>>> still need the CSx- lines ANDed to generate the SRAM CS-. Again no >>>>>soldering >>>>> on the M100 required. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> From: M100 <[email protected]> on behalf of Mike Stein >>>>> <[email protected]> >>>>> Reply-To: <[email protected]> >>>>> Date: Wednesday, March 14, 2018 at 12:19 PM >>>>> To: <[email protected]> >>>>> Subject: Re: [M100] 8K RAM Chip >>>>> >>>>> It needs more than just remapping the signals; the required upper two >>>>> address lines are not available on the sockets so you either need to >>>>>add >>>>> logic to recreate them or modify the main board. >>>>> >>>>> m >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: Gregory McGill >>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2018 1:22 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [M100] 8K RAM Chip >>>>> >>>>> thanks! It seems like we should be able to use the 8x8 chip from the >>>>>102 >>>>> with some kludging of lines.. they are pretty close.. >>>>> >>>>> Greg >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Mar 14, 2018 at 10:08 AM, Brian White <[email protected]> >>>>>wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> There are at least a few different "build your own ram upgrade" >>>>>>articles >>>>>> on club100 and other archives of old forum posts, and in magazines >>>>>>too >>>>>>I >>>>>> think but those are hard to search. >>>>>> >>>>>> Here's one that is not one of the old original ones I was thinking >>>>>>of, >>>>>>but >>>>>> looks ok. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fdigil >>>>>>an >>>>>>der.libero.it%2Frar2k%2FTRS80%2FMemory24k.html&data=02%7C01%7C%7C048c0 >>>>>>22 >>>>>>979894132d34008d58a9a0491%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7 >>>>>>C6 >>>>>>36567316455373249&sdata=M401o8EYP5VKZbt6sd4xlFFLtEzMNxzZypxq02jdHtA%3D >>>>>>&r >>>>>>eserved=0 >>>>>> >>>>>> I have some NEC modules that work that I assume must have originally >>>>>>been >>>>>> meant for nec 8201a. They are a little pcb with a single ram chip and >>>>>>an >>>>>> additional chip probably a decoder of some sort to consume 4 >>>>>>chip-enable >>>>>> lines. I could take some photos of it and maybe it's circuit could be >>>>>> reverse engineered from that. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fphot >>>>>>os >>>>>>.app.goo.gl%2FZQle2id7AMWdX2bC3&data=02%7C01%7C%7C048c022979894132d340 >>>>>>08 >>>>>>d58a9a0491%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63656731645537 >>>>>>32 >>>>>>49&sdata=U1zwRxS%2BqcGGwPwxZaDIUlpa3LnVMkq5gj5%2F5NZFThU%3D&reserved=0 >>>>>> >>>>>> Another option is QUAD, which is a thing that installs in the bus >>>>>>socket >>>>>> and displaces the internal ram with it's own full 32K, plus 3 more >>>>>>banks of >>>>>> 32K that you can switch between. Although you can't get a quad right >>>>>>now. >>>>>> Steven Adolph is testing his latest revision of the design and it's >>>>>>in >>>>>> between right now. He found problems with the old version and so >>>>>>removed it >>>>>> from oshpark, and th new version is not yet verified. >>>>>> >>>>>> But assuming that comes along sooner or later, that would upgrade you >>>>>>to >>>>>> 32K the same as if you had installed all 4 possible modules inside. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> bkw >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Mar 14, 2018, 11:14 AM Gregory McGill >>>>>><[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ok is there a source for the 100 chips? or a pcb? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Greg >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 14, 2018 at 12:02 AM, Fugu ME100 <[email protected]> >>>>>>>wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Just the 102, it uses a standard pin out. The 100 uses a special >>>>>>>>RAM >>>>>>>> module. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> From: M100 <[email protected]> on behalf of Gregory >>>>>>>> McGill <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> Reply-To: <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> Date: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 at 10:58 PM >>>>>>>> To: <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [M100] 8K RAM Chip >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> oh wait these are 32x8 :) are these ones on ebay for the 100 or >>>>>>>>102? or >>>>>>>> both? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Greg >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 9, 2018 at 7:33 PM, Gregory McGill >>>>>>>><[email protected]> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> if you have the pinouts I have a bunch of 8x8 srams around for >>>>>>>>>TI99 >>>>>>>>> projects >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Greg >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 9, 2018 at 6:11 PM, Ken Pettit <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Ahh, I see now the original email stated 102. So yeah, those >>>>>>>>>>will >>>>>>>>>> work. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Ken >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 3/9/18 6:09 PM, Fugu ME100 wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> More if it was R/S :) >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> This is the one >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2 >>>>>>>>>>>Fw >>>>>>>>>>>ww.ebay.com%2Fitm%2F1-TOSHIBA-TC5565PL-15-64K-8Kx8-SRAM-CMOS-STAT >>>>>>>>>>>IC >>>>>>>>>>>-RA&data=02%7C01%7C%7C048c022979894132d34008d58a9a0491%7C84df9e7f >>>>>>>>>>>e9 >>>>>>>>>>>f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636567316455373249&sdata=11PwB0A >>>>>>>>>>>2j >>>>>>>>>>>z5EIlgU2HQcPAEA7LwIMWh28jGAdm2trv0%3D&reserved=0 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>M-5V-150NS-28-PIN-PDIP/321974484773?hash=item4af72cbf25:g:ldEAAOS >>>>>>>>>>>wG >>>>>>>>>>>otWlWd9 >>>>>>>>>>> you mean? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 9/3/18, 6:07 PM, "M100 on behalf of Peter Vollan" >>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected] on behalf of >>>>>>>>>>>[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Wow, a quick check reveals a 8kX8 SRAM on ebay for $3. Didn't >>>>>>>>>>>>those >>>>>>>>>>>> "memory modules" cost about $30? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 9 March 2018 at 17:57, Chris Kmiec <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>>wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Great, I'll go looking on the intrawebs :) >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> You don't happen to have another REX, do you? :) >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 9, 2018 at 7:01 PM, Fugu ME100 >>>>>>>>>>>>><[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The chips are available they are standard 8Kx8 SRAM. Should >>>>>>>>>>>>>>be >>>>>>>>>>>>>> able to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> find some on line. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately the QUAD is only for the Model 100, it will not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>fit >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 102. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Congratulations on your new addition :) >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: M100 <[email protected]> on behalf of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>Chris >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kmiec >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Reply-To: <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Friday, March 9, 2018 at 4:33 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [M100] 8K RAM Chip >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are these available anywhere, or do I have to find a donor >>>>>>>>>>>>>>system? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just >>>>>>>>>>>>>> got a like-new 102, but no memory expansion. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm assuming QUAD is no longer being made/sold? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mar 14, 2018 11:14 AM, "Gregory McGill" <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> ok is there a source for the 100 chips? or a pcb? >>>>>> >>>>>> Greg >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Mar 14, 2018 at 12:02 AM, Fugu ME100 <[email protected]> >>>>>>wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Just the 102, it uses a standard pin out. The 100 uses a special >>>>>>>RAM >>>>>>> module. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> From: M100 <[email protected]> on behalf of Gregory >>>>>>> McGill <[email protected]> >>>>>>> Reply-To: <[email protected]> >>>>>>> Date: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 at 10:58 PM >>>>>>> To: <[email protected]> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [M100] 8K RAM Chip >>>>>>> >>>>>>> oh wait these are 32x8 :) are these ones on ebay for the 100 or >>>>>>>102? >>>>>>>or >>>>>>> both? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Greg >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 9, 2018 at 7:33 PM, Gregory McGill >>>>>>><[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> if you have the pinouts I have a bunch of 8x8 srams around for TI99 >>>>>>>> projects >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Greg >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 9, 2018 at 6:11 PM, Ken Pettit <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Ahh, I see now the original email stated 102. So yeah, those will >>>>>>>>> work. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Ken >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 3/9/18 6:09 PM, Fugu ME100 wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> More if it was R/S :) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> This is the one >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2F >>>>>>>>>>ww >>>>>>>>>>w.ebay.com%2Fitm%2F1-TOSHIBA-TC5565PL-15-64K-8Kx8-SRAM-CMOS-STATIC >>>>>>>>>>-R >>>>>>>>>>A&data=02%7C01%7C%7C048c022979894132d34008d58a9a0491%7C84df9e7fe9f >>>>>>>>>>64 >>>>>>>>>>0afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636567316455373249&sdata=11PwB0A2jz5 >>>>>>>>>>EI >>>>>>>>>>lgU2HQcPAEA7LwIMWh28jGAdm2trv0%3D&reserved=0 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>M-5V-150NS-28-PIN-PDIP/321974484773?hash=item4af72cbf25:g:ldEAAOSw >>>>>>>>>>Go >>>>>>>>>>tWlWd9 >>>>>>>>>> you mean? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 9/3/18, 6:07 PM, "M100 on behalf of Peter Vollan" >>>>>>>>>> <[email protected] on behalf of >>>>>>>>>>[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Wow, a quick check reveals a 8kX8 SRAM on ebay for $3. Didn't >>>>>>>>>>>those >>>>>>>>>>> "memory modules" cost about $30? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 9 March 2018 at 17:57, Chris Kmiec <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Great, I'll go looking on the intrawebs :) >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> You don't happen to have another REX, do you? :) >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 9, 2018 at 7:01 PM, Fugu ME100 >>>>>>>>>>>><[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The chips are available they are standard 8Kx8 SRAM. Should >>>>>>>>>>>>>be >>>>>>>>>>>>> able to >>>>>>>>>>>>> find some on line. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately the QUAD is only for the Model 100, it will not >>>>>>>>>>>>>fit >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> 102. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Congratulations on your new addition :) >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> From: M100 <[email protected]> on behalf of >>>>>>>>>>>>>Chris >>>>>>>>>>>>> Kmiec >>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Reply-To: <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Friday, March 9, 2018 at 4:33 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>> To: <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [M100] 8K RAM Chip >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Are these available anywhere, or do I have to find a donor >>>>>>>>>>>>>system? >>>>>>>>>>>>> Just >>>>>>>>>>>>> got a like-new 102, but no memory expansion. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm assuming QUAD is no longer being made/sold? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> > >
