Brian is correct. The mComm manual is talking about two adapters that go on the end of a standard DB9 usb to serial adapter. I mentioned the Cisco console cable because I was able to find them cheap and cut off the rj45 end and soldered it to the DB25 hood with the proper pinout. But like Brian said, there are a couple different standards of those cables so make sure you line everything up properly.
Kurt On Wed, Feb 24, 2021, at 4:38 PM, Brian K. White wrote: > On 2/24/21 6:04 PM, John R. Hogerhuis wrote: > > "Now I'm re-reading the Club100 instructions and it looks like I have > > to use the RS232 jack. That really changes things..... > > The instructions say the best solution is to solder the wires to the > > DB25 connector." > > > > What document are you looking at from Club100? > > > > The Model 100 has a DB25 female port, wired DTE. It is standard wiring. > > > > I'd guess the usb-serial adapter you use with the Android thingy > > should be wired DTE as well. Typically DB-9 male. > > > > Which means you need a cable between them wired for null (cross). > > Which is also standard wiring. > > > > Typically all you need to add to a standard cable is a gender changer > > because the Model 100 uses a female DTE wired DB-25. Whereas with PCs > > it is typically male DB25 or DB9. > > ...and the cables I linked to don't even need the gender-changer. I > don't know what the question is because the question is already > answered. The page shows the pinouts if you want to make a cable > manually, and links directly to pre-made cables where everything is > verified correct. Can't get any easier. > > To use Android you do need one other part not mentioned there which is > an OTG cable. > > Maybe he's confused by the mComm manual saying that one option is to use > a cisco console cable. The problem is there are a few different types of > those. > > The most common old cisco console cables have a RJ45 plug on one end and > a DE9F on the other end, and they are meant to plug the RJ45 into the > switch or router, and the DE9F connects to a pc com port or usb-serial > adapter. > > But the mComm docs are talking about something else which is essentially > a usb-serial adapter with usb on one end and rj45 on the other end just > for cisco gear. The idea there is to keep the usb end and cut off the > rj45 end, and put your own male 25-pin on there, creating a custom > one-piece usb-to-100 cable. It doesn't delve in to the actual wire > colors to show how to actually do that. > > I have no idea off-hand how those cisco adapters are wired. They have a > built-in usb-serial chip, so the PC end of the serial cable is unknown > wiring going right to the chip in the usb plug. Don't know what signals > are even provided, whether DSR/DTR is fully connected, or just > faked/looped-back, or not there at all. Don't know which wire colors are > which. You'd have to google up the rj45 pinout for the Cisco console. > > Personally IF I were going to use that cisco cable, I would probably do > that by looking up the rj45 cisco console port pinout, and just getting > a configurable adapter like this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00066HP56 > so you just plug the cisco cable into it instead of cutting the rj45 off > and soldering a db25. > > Except for one thing: The backshell on that adapter, and most other db25 > backshells, don't fit well on Model 100's. So only for that reason I > might cut the plug off and solder on a db25 just so that I could use a > *specific* backshell that does fit into the hole in a 100, which you > have to order from digiky or similar. > https://www.digikey.com/short/h4wjpt92 > > But that is all an un-neccessary pain in the neck. What I'd actually do > is what I in fact do, which is just get an ordinary usb-serial adapter > and connect one of the cables linked on that page of reference cables, > and the factory molded db25 plug does fit where most solder-connector > backshells don't. > > Serial Cable: https://www.pccables.com/products/00103.html > USB-Serial: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005SYQV9C > OTG cable: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01C6031PC > > If what you have is the old style of cisco console cable with rj45 and > de9f, that is simply not a useful cable for this. > > -- > bkw > > > > > > > -- John. > > > > > > On Wed, Feb 24, 2021 at 12:44 PM AvantGuard Systems > > <cavaug...@avantguardsystems.com > > <mailto:cavaug...@avantguardsystems.com>> wrote: > > > > Now I'm re-reading the Club100 instructions and it looks like I > > have to use the RS232 jack. That really changes things..... > > The instructions say the best solution is to solder the wires to > > the DB25 connector. Where? The pin out makes no sense to me. > > > > > > Curtis > > > > On Wed, Feb 24, 2021 at 11:45 AM AvantGuard Systems > > <cavaug...@avantguardsystems.com > > <mailto:cavaug...@avantguardsystems.com>> wrote: > > > > OK, so it seems like the easiest thing for me to try for now > > is using an Android device, which I have plenty of. I've > > installed the mcomm program from Club100's website. Now I just > > have to figure out the proper pin out for a DB9 cable. Let me > > explain. > > I have a Cisco DB9 to RJ45 cord. > > The pin out is explained here: > > > > https://allpinouts.org/pinouts/cables/serial/cisco-console-rj45-to-db9-pin/ > > > > <https://allpinouts.org/pinouts/cables/serial/cisco-console-rj45-to-db9-pin/> > > When I look at the instructions on Club100 it looks like only > > pins 2-8 are used. > > > > HOWEVER! I'm no electrician, but I tested each pin for the DB9 > > to RJ45 and here's how they came out. First item is the DB9 > > pin and the second the RJ45 from the top (the side without the > > clip). > > > > 1 > 2 > > 2 nowhere > > 3 > 6 > > 4 > 7 > > 5 > 4 > > 6 > 2 > > 7 > 8 > > 8 > 1 > > 9 nowhere > > > > Looking at various Cisco charts however, it seems to me that > > I'm reading things completely wrong. That the RJ45 should be > > read not from left to right, but the other way. And this lines > > up more with various Cisco docs. So that get us: > > > > 1 > 7 > > 2 nowhere > > 3 > 3 > > 4 > 2 > > 5 > 5 > > 6 > 7 > > 7 > 1 > > 8 > 8 > > 9 nowhere > > > > My question is what is the right pin out as I could rewire > > however I want easily. Cut off the old jack and put in a new one. > > > > Thanks! > > > > Curtis > > > > On Tue, Feb 23, 2021 at 4:58 PM Brian K. White > > <b.kenyo...@gmail.com <mailto:b.kenyo...@gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > On 2/23/21 6:38 PM, AvantGuard Systems wrote: > > > Now, I'm wondering whether there's a way to transfer > > files from my > > > computer to the M100..... > > > > Many ways. > > > > How to decide which of the many ways depends on what your > > priorities > > are, convenience or cost, and on what you have available > > for a modern > > machine. > > > > For instance one super convenient option is there is an > > Android app that > > is both a TPDD server and TPDD client > > installer/bootstrapper. You don't > > have to buy anything but the serial cable and usb adapter, > > but you > > always need that anyway. But that's only super convenient > > if you happen > > to have an Android phone or tablet. And I suppose only if > > moving files > > to a phone instead of your real computer is good enough, > > maybe via > > google drive. > > > > The generally most convenient and robust way is a serial > > cable and a > > TPDD emulator and a REX#. > > > > Whatever other software or hardware you use, you pretty > > much always need > > this cable: > > http://tandy.wiki/Model_T_Serial_Cable > > <http://tandy.wiki/Model_T_Serial_Cable> > > > > Then there are several different things you can do that > > are all > > different levels of convenient, reliable, binary-safe, > > expensive, > > requiring special cables or parts or software, etc. > > > > You can use just the plain built-in telcom app and > > teraterm-pro or putty > > or really any serial comm program on the modern machine to > > transfer > > plain text. This gets you text documents and *some* basic > > programs but > > not all, maybe not all database/spreadsheet files either, > > definitely no > > tokenized basic and no binary executables. > > The advantage here is you don't have to buy anything but > > the serial > > cable and usb-serial adapter, and don't have to somehow > > get software > > installed onto the 100 the first time before you can start > > using it. But > > it's limited and error-prone and inconvenient. > > > > Better is to use a tpdd server on the modern machine and > > tpdd client on > > the 100. > > > > But that requires a few more pieces, for one thing, you > > need to get a > > tpdd client onto the 100 somehow the first time. It's a > > chicken and egg > > problem. If you already had an easy way to transfer files > > to transfer > > the tpdd client program, then what do you need the tpdd > > client program > > for? If you need the tpdd client program to transfer > > files, then how do > > you transfer the tpdd client program itself before it's > > installed? > > > > In the old days the answer was you bought the client > > program in the form > > of a ROM chip you plugged in to the option rom socket, or > > you loaded it > > from cassette tape. > > > > Today neither of those is all that practical. They are > > both still > > possible. There is an mp3 of the cassette file for TS-DOS > > (at least for > > model 100/102, not all the others). So IF you had the > > cassette cable you > > could do that. You could build yourself a TS-DOS option > > rom. There are > > plans and links to parts to make a totally neat little > > module, but it's > > kind of ridiculous amount of parts and labor and tools > > needed for what > > you get in the end. (I can say that since it's mine) > > http://tandy.wiki/Teeprom <http://tandy.wiki/Teeprom> > > > > The MOST convenient way to get a tpdd client onto the 100 > > is to buy a > > REX# and just pop it in. That gets you TS-DOS in ROM, as > > well as a whole > > option rom library and memory backup device on-board. And > > that allows > > you to use any tpdd server on the modern machine. The 3 > > main ones right > > now are mComm, LaddieAlpha, and dlplus. > > http://bitchin100.com/wiki/index.php?title=REXsharp > > <http://bitchin100.com/wiki/index.php?title=REXsharp> > > > > If you don't have or don't want to buy a REX# (or build > > your own REX > > classic or Teeprom), the next-most convenient is to use a > > tpdd server > > that includes a bootstrapper that can install a tpdd > > client app onto the > > 100 whenever you need to, using the same serial connection > > that you need > > anyway to use the tpdd client and server. mComm and dlplus > > include a > > bootstrapper. > > > > And it depends what platform the modern machine is. > > For Android or Windows, there is mComm. > > > > http://www.club100.org/memfiles/index.php?&direction=0&order=&directory=Kurt%20McCullum > > > > <http://www.club100.org/memfiles/index.php?&direction=0&order=&directory=Kurt%20McCullum> > > > > For Linux or Mac, there is dlplus. > > https://github.com/bkw777/dlplus > > <https://github.com/bkw777/dlplus> > > > > There is also a python version of mComm which you could > > run on almost > > anything, but that requires a little more fiddling. > > > > In fact I still haven't covered everything but these are > > the most > > practical options today. > > > > -- > > bkw > > > > > > > > > > > > Curtis > > > > > > On Tue, Feb 23, 2021 at 3:00 PM AvantGuard Systems > > > <cavaug...@avantguardsystems.com > > <mailto:cavaug...@avantguardsystems.com> > > > <mailto:cavaug...@avantguardsystems.com > > <mailto:cavaug...@avantguardsystems.com>>> wrote: > > > > > > Steve, > > > Thanks for the response! I've figured it all out > > finally. Just trial > > > and error until something worked. I just posted the > > Wifi card I'm > > > using, but again it's: https://is.gd/2QfZNy > > <https://is.gd/2QfZNy> <https://is.gd/2QfZNy > > <https://is.gd/2QfZNy>> > > > And there's info also at: > > https://github.com/8bit-bruno/WiFiModem > > <https://github.com/8bit-bruno/WiFiModem> > > > <https://github.com/8bit-bruno/WiFiModem > > <https://github.com/8bit-bruno/WiFiModem>> > > > > > > Curtis > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Feb 23, 2021 at 2:57 PM Steve Baker > > <stevebake...@gmail.com <mailto:stevebake...@gmail.com> > > > <mailto:stevebake...@gmail.com > > <mailto:stevebake...@gmail.com>>> wrote: > > > > > > Greetings Curtis! > > > > > > What type of RS232 modem do you use with the > > KayPro? Just > > > curious as I love retro-tech and am always > > looking to try out > > > new gear and fun stuff! > > > > > > Re: connecting to BBSs, Telnet sites, FTP sites, > > etc. using the > > > M100, one trick is to ensure the baud rate is > > the same on the > > > Model T and the RS232-WiFi card in the Term > > program. There’s no > > > special dial code and it doesn’t know about the > > address book (I > > > wrote down my favorite BBSs, Telnet, FTP, etc.). > > > > > > Basically just use the “atdt host.domain:port” > > command and it’ll > > > connect you through techno-magic. I did recently > > make a quick > > > video that does happen to show me connecting to > > one Telnet site > > > using my Tandy 102, if this is of any help. > > Again, your mileage > > > might vary depending on the gadget you’re using. > > > > > > https://youtu.be/m_IKzoesVG4 > > <https://youtu.be/m_IKzoesVG4> > > <https://youtu.be/m_IKzoesVG4 <https://youtu.be/m_IKzoesVG4>> > > > > > > Hope this helps, and happy to offer whatever > > experience and/or > > > thoughts that I might have to help! > > > SB > > > > > > -- > > > Greetings from Steve Baker > > > “Gravity brings me down…” > > > > > > > > > > > >> On Feb 23, 2021, at 4:25 PM, AvantGuard Systems > > >> <cavaug...@avantguardsystems.com > > <mailto:cavaug...@avantguardsystems.com> > > >> <mailto:cavaug...@avantguardsystems.com > > <mailto:cavaug...@avantguardsystems.com>>> wrote: > > >> > > >> Really need to start saving my searches... > > anyhow, I know I > > >> somewhere saw information about using a wifi > > modem on the > > >> RS232 jack for network access. > > >> I have a wifi RS232 modem for my KayPro so I > > thought I'd try > > >> it on the M100. Any ideas about how to go about > > sending the > > >> right dial code (I assume from the address > > book) to maybe make > > >> it work? Or am I just going about this all > > wrong.... > > >> > > >> Curtis > > > > > > > > > -- > > bkw > > > >
