On 2/24/21 6:04 PM, John R. Hogerhuis wrote:
"Now I'm re-reading the Club100 instructions and it looks like I have
to use the RS232 jack. That really changes things.....
The instructions say the best solution is to solder the wires to the
DB25 connector."
What document are you looking at from Club100?
The Model 100 has a DB25 female port, wired DTE. It is standard wiring.
I'd guess the usb-serial adapter you use with the Android thingy
should be wired DTE as well. Typically DB-9 male.
Which means you need a cable between them wired for null (cross).
Which is also standard wiring.
Typically all you need to add to a standard cable is a gender changer
because the Model 100 uses a female DTE wired DB-25. Whereas with PCs
it is typically male DB25 or DB9.
...and the cables I linked to don't even need the gender-changer. I
don't know what the question is because the question is already
answered. The page shows the pinouts if you want to make a cable
manually, and links directly to pre-made cables where everything is
verified correct. Can't get any easier.
To use Android you do need one other part not mentioned there which is
an OTG cable.
Maybe he's confused by the mComm manual saying that one option is to use
a cisco console cable. The problem is there are a few different types of
those.
The most common old cisco console cables have a RJ45 plug on one end and
a DE9F on the other end, and they are meant to plug the RJ45 into the
switch or router, and the DE9F connects to a pc com port or usb-serial
adapter.
But the mComm docs are talking about something else which is essentially
a usb-serial adapter with usb on one end and rj45 on the other end just
for cisco gear. The idea there is to keep the usb end and cut off the
rj45 end, and put your own male 25-pin on there, creating a custom
one-piece usb-to-100 cable. It doesn't delve in to the actual wire
colors to show how to actually do that.
I have no idea off-hand how those cisco adapters are wired. They have a
built-in usb-serial chip, so the PC end of the serial cable is unknown
wiring going right to the chip in the usb plug. Don't know what signals
are even provided, whether DSR/DTR is fully connected, or just
faked/looped-back, or not there at all. Don't know which wire colors are
which. You'd have to google up the rj45 pinout for the Cisco console.
Personally IF I were going to use that cisco cable, I would probably do
that by looking up the rj45 cisco console port pinout, and just getting
a configurable adapter like this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00066HP56
so you just plug the cisco cable into it instead of cutting the rj45 off
and soldering a db25.
Except for one thing: The backshell on that adapter, and most other db25
backshells, don't fit well on Model 100's. So only for that reason I
might cut the plug off and solder on a db25 just so that I could use a
*specific* backshell that does fit into the hole in a 100, which you
have to order from digiky or similar.
https://www.digikey.com/short/h4wjpt92
But that is all an un-neccessary pain in the neck. What I'd actually do
is what I in fact do, which is just get an ordinary usb-serial adapter
and connect one of the cables linked on that page of reference cables,
and the factory molded db25 plug does fit where most solder-connector
backshells don't.
Serial Cable: https://www.pccables.com/products/00103.html
USB-Serial: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005SYQV9C
OTG cable: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01C6031PC
If what you have is the old style of cisco console cable with rj45 and
de9f, that is simply not a useful cable for this.
--
bkw
-- John.
On Wed, Feb 24, 2021 at 12:44 PM AvantGuard Systems
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Now I'm re-reading the Club100 instructions and it looks like I
have to use the RS232 jack. That really changes things.....
The instructions say the best solution is to solder the wires to
the DB25 connector. Where? The pin out makes no sense to me.
Curtis
On Wed, Feb 24, 2021 at 11:45 AM AvantGuard Systems
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
OK, so it seems like the easiest thing for me to try for now
is using an Android device, which I have plenty of. I've
installed the mcomm program from Club100's website. Now I just
have to figure out the proper pin out for a DB9 cable. Let me
explain.
I have a Cisco DB9 to RJ45 cord.
The pin out is explained here:
https://allpinouts.org/pinouts/cables/serial/cisco-console-rj45-to-db9-pin/
<https://allpinouts.org/pinouts/cables/serial/cisco-console-rj45-to-db9-pin/>
When I look at the instructions on Club100 it looks like only
pins 2-8 are used.
HOWEVER! I'm no electrician, but I tested each pin for the DB9
to RJ45 and here's how they came out. First item is the DB9
pin and the second the RJ45 from the top (the side without the
clip).
1 > 2
2 nowhere
3 > 6
4 > 7
5 > 4
6 > 2
7 > 8
8 > 1
9 nowhere
Looking at various Cisco charts however, it seems to me that
I'm reading things completely wrong. That the RJ45 should be
read not from left to right, but the other way. And this lines
up more with various Cisco docs. So that get us:
1 > 7
2 nowhere
3 > 3
4 > 2
5 > 5
6 > 7
7 > 1
8 > 8
9 nowhere
My question is what is the right pin out as I could rewire
however I want easily. Cut off the old jack and put in a new one.
Thanks!
Curtis
On Tue, Feb 23, 2021 at 4:58 PM Brian K. White
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
On 2/23/21 6:38 PM, AvantGuard Systems wrote:
> Now, I'm wondering whether there's a way to transfer
files from my
> computer to the M100.....
Many ways.
How to decide which of the many ways depends on what your
priorities
are, convenience or cost, and on what you have available
for a modern
machine.
For instance one super convenient option is there is an
Android app that
is both a TPDD server and TPDD client
installer/bootstrapper. You don't
have to buy anything but the serial cable and usb adapter,
but you
always need that anyway. But that's only super convenient
if you happen
to have an Android phone or tablet. And I suppose only if
moving files
to a phone instead of your real computer is good enough,
maybe via
google drive.
The generally most convenient and robust way is a serial
cable and a
TPDD emulator and a REX#.
Whatever other software or hardware you use, you pretty
much always need
this cable:
http://tandy.wiki/Model_T_Serial_Cable
<http://tandy.wiki/Model_T_Serial_Cable>
Then there are several different things you can do that
are all
different levels of convenient, reliable, binary-safe,
expensive,
requiring special cables or parts or software, etc.
You can use just the plain built-in telcom app and
teraterm-pro or putty
or really any serial comm program on the modern machine to
transfer
plain text. This gets you text documents and *some* basic
programs but
not all, maybe not all database/spreadsheet files either,
definitely no
tokenized basic and no binary executables.
The advantage here is you don't have to buy anything but
the serial
cable and usb-serial adapter, and don't have to somehow
get software
installed onto the 100 the first time before you can start
using it. But
it's limited and error-prone and inconvenient.
Better is to use a tpdd server on the modern machine and
tpdd client on
the 100.
But that requires a few more pieces, for one thing, you
need to get a
tpdd client onto the 100 somehow the first time. It's a
chicken and egg
problem. If you already had an easy way to transfer files
to transfer
the tpdd client program, then what do you need the tpdd
client program
for? If you need the tpdd client program to transfer
files, then how do
you transfer the tpdd client program itself before it's
installed?
In the old days the answer was you bought the client
program in the form
of a ROM chip you plugged in to the option rom socket, or
you loaded it
from cassette tape.
Today neither of those is all that practical. They are
both still
possible. There is an mp3 of the cassette file for TS-DOS
(at least for
model 100/102, not all the others). So IF you had the
cassette cable you
could do that. You could build yourself a TS-DOS option
rom. There are
plans and links to parts to make a totally neat little
module, but it's
kind of ridiculous amount of parts and labor and tools
needed for what
you get in the end. (I can say that since it's mine)
http://tandy.wiki/Teeprom <http://tandy.wiki/Teeprom>
The MOST convenient way to get a tpdd client onto the 100
is to buy a
REX# and just pop it in. That gets you TS-DOS in ROM, as
well as a whole
option rom library and memory backup device on-board. And
that allows
you to use any tpdd server on the modern machine. The 3
main ones right
now are mComm, LaddieAlpha, and dlplus.
http://bitchin100.com/wiki/index.php?title=REXsharp
<http://bitchin100.com/wiki/index.php?title=REXsharp>
If you don't have or don't want to buy a REX# (or build
your own REX
classic or Teeprom), the next-most convenient is to use a
tpdd server
that includes a bootstrapper that can install a tpdd
client app onto the
100 whenever you need to, using the same serial connection
that you need
anyway to use the tpdd client and server. mComm and dlplus
include a
bootstrapper.
And it depends what platform the modern machine is.
For Android or Windows, there is mComm.
http://www.club100.org/memfiles/index.php?&direction=0&order=&directory=Kurt%20McCullum
<http://www.club100.org/memfiles/index.php?&direction=0&order=&directory=Kurt%20McCullum>
For Linux or Mac, there is dlplus.
https://github.com/bkw777/dlplus
<https://github.com/bkw777/dlplus>
There is also a python version of mComm which you could
run on almost
anything, but that requires a little more fiddling.
In fact I still haven't covered everything but these are
the most
practical options today.
--
bkw
>
> Curtis
>
> On Tue, Feb 23, 2021 at 3:00 PM AvantGuard Systems
> <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>> wrote:
>
> Steve,
> Thanks for the response! I've figured it all out
finally. Just trial
> and error until something worked. I just posted the
Wifi card I'm
> using, but again it's: https://is.gd/2QfZNy
<https://is.gd/2QfZNy> <https://is.gd/2QfZNy
<https://is.gd/2QfZNy>>
> And there's info also at:
https://github.com/8bit-bruno/WiFiModem
<https://github.com/8bit-bruno/WiFiModem>
> <https://github.com/8bit-bruno/WiFiModem
<https://github.com/8bit-bruno/WiFiModem>>
>
> Curtis
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 23, 2021 at 2:57 PM Steve Baker
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>> wrote:
>
> Greetings Curtis!
>
> What type of RS232 modem do you use with the
KayPro? Just
> curious as I love retro-tech and am always
looking to try out
> new gear and fun stuff!
>
> Re: connecting to BBSs, Telnet sites, FTP sites,
etc. using the
> M100, one trick is to ensure the baud rate is
the same on the
> Model T and the RS232-WiFi card in the Term
program. There’s no
> special dial code and it doesn’t know about the
address book (I
> wrote down my favorite BBSs, Telnet, FTP, etc.).
>
> Basically just use the “atdt host.domain:port”
command and it’ll
> connect you through techno-magic. I did recently
make a quick
> video that does happen to show me connecting to
one Telnet site
> using my Tandy 102, if this is of any help.
Again, your mileage
> might vary depending on the gadget you’re using.
>
> https://youtu.be/m_IKzoesVG4
<https://youtu.be/m_IKzoesVG4>
<https://youtu.be/m_IKzoesVG4 <https://youtu.be/m_IKzoesVG4>>
>
> Hope this helps, and happy to offer whatever
experience and/or
> thoughts that I might have to help!
> SB
>
> --
> Greetings from Steve Baker
> “Gravity brings me down…”
>
>
>
>> On Feb 23, 2021, at 4:25 PM, AvantGuard Systems
>> <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
>> <mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>> wrote:
>>
>> Really need to start saving my searches...
anyhow, I know I
>> somewhere saw information about using a wifi
modem on the
>> RS232 jack for network access.
>> I have a wifi RS232 modem for my KayPro so I
thought I'd try
>> it on the M100. Any ideas about how to go about
sending the
>> right dial code (I assume from the address
book) to maybe make
>> it work? Or am I just going about this all
wrong....
>>
>> Curtis
>
--
bkw
