Actually I have tab set to interact automatically, actually That's on by default so for me I'm not even paying attention to any fraims but hitting l and shift l in qn quick button mode to get around farily quicly, no intraction needed. Thanks lion for introducing this neat feature.
A bit of a tip. if you pay attention to vo's sounds you would know when you go from colomn 10 to colomn 1 when yo vo right. or left or what not. Tc On Aug 24, 2014, at 12:55 AM, Sean Murphy <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi, > > I have to retract my previous comment about Safari on the Mac and Vo with the > Audible pages. I have just identify the problem. It was a user error. Lol. > When you move to the previous row in the same column. Vo takes you to the > last element in the cell. When you move to the next row in the same column. > It takes you to the first element in the cell. Thus I was under the > impression that there was more then 10 columns, hens the confusion. I thought > I was going to column 11, in fact I was going to column 10 the last element > in that column. > > > I hope the above makes sense. > > I still prefer Google Chrome and ChromeVox on the Mac then Safari. Just find > it easier to work with. I don’t like the way you have to interact with each > element. This is specially the case for frames and other objects that have > objects contained within the main object. > > Everyone to their own. > > Sean > > > > On 24 Aug 2014, at 11:28 am, Sarah k Alawami <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Acutally all you do to get to the prior colomsn is jsut hold down vo and hot >> up down. Same about navigating across rows. It really is not that big of an >> issue. You can also junp to the bottom of a table wiht vo shift fn end. I do >> this all the time on gmail's basic page. YOu can also use vo f to find >> somethign in a table and that works very very well. I dont' use qn as I hate >> it except for quick button nav which I do like. >> >> take care. >> On Aug 23, 2014, at 6:18 PM, Sean Murphy <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Sorry, I am not rosy glassed as a lot of Apple users. All OS screen >>> readers have problems. Some more then others. The table navigation in VO on >>> the Mac Safari is lacking. Basic navigation to the previous cell in the >>> same column should work on all tables. Specially when other assistive >>> technology screen readers don’t have the issue on the same table. >>> >>> There should be no difference between using vi-up arrow compared to using >>> the table navigation rotary option, then the up/down arrows. If Vo detects >>> it as a table, then it should handle it accordingly. >>> >>> There is a lot of things that work fine in VO, equally there are issues >>> like any product. I do not see apple fixing these problems and this is the >>> biggest issue and differentiation between a dedicated company to a main >>> stream. dedicated companies will act faster due to it is in their interest. >>> Main stream companies will do it if they have the budget or if it is >>> something that they believe is necessary. The budget issue is normally the >>> first thing off the rack. Since accessibility is low on their overall >>> business plans, it will take them far longer if ever to fix these annoying >>> bugs or introducing new features that the small customer base wants. >>> >>> IF Apple opened up the API of Voice Over more then you might be able to >>> introduce new features by others who have the skills. >>> >>> Sean >>> On 24 Aug 2014, at 6:13 am, Sarah k Alawami <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> No issues at all actually. I can fly around almost any table, about 99 >>>> percent of them. Sometimes I run in to them, Jk, but really safari and >>>> tables and tables in general with osx is really quite simple. and as for >>>> the help docs dont' read them as they show you the long way to do stuff. >>>> >>>> I had training for about 4 hours and by the time I was done I was using >>>> the internet and taking notes in class the next day. >>>> >>>> Take care. >>>> On Aug 23, 2014, at 1:11 PM, gs <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I'll leave it to the experts then if that's what it takes to achieve >>>>> proper table navigation. I use the tools as they are advertised and >>>>> documented in the help and tutorials. There are significant issues. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Aug 23, 2014, at 3:05 PM, Sarah k Alawami <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Actually table navigation rocks and I use it in a work environment, >>>>> mainly the creation of my websites and music sites. You just need to >>>>> knwo how to use the tools at hand. >>>>> >>>>> Tae care. >>>>> On Aug 23, 2014, at 11:30 AM, gs <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hmm. I'll try this next time I want to read a table. But I have to say >>>>>> that the table navigation is so poor with the column weirdness that I'm >>>>>> glad I don't have to use a Mac in a work environment. I love it for >>>>>> what it does well but can't understand why there are not more >>>>>> incremental improvements with new releases of the OS. We really need to >>>>>> somehow get to a point where VO can be enhanced/fixed without an >>>>>> operating system update but I realize this may never happen. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 23, 2014, at 1:44 PM, Sarah k Alawami <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I just hit vo up and down arrow on the colomns. this often works except >>>>>> on certain web pages. I hate qn for some reason, and yes I know how to >>>>>> use it. lol! I did some materials on it, but I personally don't use it. >>>>>> On Aug 23, 2014, at 10:40 AM, Christopher Hallsworth >>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Ok here is a tip for you all. >>>>>>> 1. Make sure quicknav is on with left-right. >>>>>>> 2. Go to a table by pressing either t or vo-command-t. >>>>>>> 3. Use the rotor command until you find navigation. Rotor is left-up or >>>>>>> right-up. >>>>>>> 4. Now press either up or down by itself and see if you can navigate >>>>>>> the table better. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Christopher Hallsworth >>>>>>> Student at the Hadley School for the Blind >>>>>>> www.hadley.edu >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 23/08/2014 12:50, Sean Murphy wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi all. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Safari on the Mac does Sucks. If you do reverse navigation on your >>>>>>>> Audible library book list table. It moves to the colin on the right as >>>>>>>> you move up by a row. It doesn’t keep you in the same column. This is >>>>>>>> one of many issues I have with it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Google Chrome really works nicely on the Mac. Only problems I have >>>>>>>> with it is that you cannot activate links when you are in the table >>>>>>>> mode. Also I have not yet worked out how to copy links or if a link >>>>>>>> refers to a document/file. You cannot download it, rather then opening >>>>>>>> it. This is something you can do on Windows browsers. I haven’t check >>>>>>>> this with Safari on the Mac. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The biggest thing I feel that goes for Chrome on the Mac is the search >>>>>>>> feature. This is really powerful. Nothing else does this. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> IOS safari also isn’t a pleasant experience. It works fine with simple >>>>>>>> pages. But I have found it doesn’t activate all fields or links. Try >>>>>>>> to sign in using Audible as an example. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I have not yet seen if Chrome is any better. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sean >>>>>>>> On 23 Aug 2014, at 4:59 pm, Christopher Hallsworth >>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I wouldn't say it sucks but sometimes VoiceOver does jump around on >>>>>>>>> especially complex pages. I like it a bit more on the mac though but >>>>>>>>> that's not to say I won't ever use it under iOS. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Christopher Hallsworth >>>>>>>>> Student at the Hadley School for the Blind >>>>>>>>> www.hadley.edu >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 22/08/2014 20:46, Phil Halton wrote: >>>>>>>>>> I was thinking of IOS browsers when I made my comments that Safari >>>>>>>>>> sucked pond water. I do like safari on the mac, but would like to >>>>>>>>>> find something else for ios. Any good ios browser suggestions? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Aug 22, 2014, at 1:39 PM, matthew stubbs >>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> There is a hole list of them you can use. >>>>>>>>>>> Instabrowser, atonicweb etc but like what has been stated before >>>>>>>>>>> none are able to be your default browser. >>>>>>>>>>> It depends what you want to use it for. But like most people >>>>>>>>>>> have said I personally find safari work best for me and does >>>>>>>>>>> all I need it to do. >>>>>>>>>>> On 22 Aug 2014, at 18:23, Devin Prater <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I personally don't see a use for any other web browser. There >>>>>>>>>>>> isn't any use, accessibility wise, for anything besides safari. >>>>>>>>>>>> Safari can already downloading stuff, I used it to download things >>>>>>>>>>>> and send them to dropbox. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 22, 2014, at 12:18, Sarah k Alawami <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I personally like safari, but I have use and also like dgoogle >>>>>>>>>>>>> chrome as a web browser. you cannot how ever use it as yoru >>>>>>>>>>>>> default browser but it works. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 22, 2014, at 6:38 AM, Eleanor Martha Burke >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Try google or Chrome >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 22 Aug 2014, at 13:51, "Jim Noseworthy" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Folks: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is there a better option out there rather than Safari for WEB >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> browsing? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net ---> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To reply to this post, please address your message to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mac-Access forum at the list's public Mail Archive: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/>. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.xml> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we always strive to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ensure that the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trojan, virus and worm-free. 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We assume neither liability >>>>>>>>>>>>> nor responsibility should something unpredictable happen. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Please remember to update your membership preferences >>>>>>>>>>>>> periodically by visiting the list website at: >>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/> >>>>>>>>>>>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net ---> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> To reply to this post, please address your message to >>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the >>>>>>>>>>>> Mac-Access forum at the list's public Mail Archive: >>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/>. >>>>>>>>>>>> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from: >>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.xml> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we always strive to >>>>>>>>>>>> ensure that the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, >>>>>>>>>>>> Trojan, virus and worm-free. 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We assume neither liability >>>>>>>>>>> nor responsibility should something unpredictable happen. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically >>>>>>>>>>> by visiting the list website at: >>>>>>>>>>> <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net ---> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> To reply to this post, please address your message to >>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Mac-Access >>>>>>>>>> forum at the list's public Mail Archive: >>>>>>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/>. >>>>>>>>>> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from: >>>>>>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.xml> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we always strive to ensure >>>>>>>>>> that the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, >>>>>>>>>> virus and worm-free. 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We assume neither liability nor >>>>>>>>>> responsibility should something unpredictable happen. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically >>>>>>>>>> by visiting the list website at: >>>>>>>>>> <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net ---> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> To reply to this post, please address your message to >>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Mac-Access >>>>>>>>> forum at the list's public Mail Archive: >>>>>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/>. >>>>>>>>> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from: >>>>>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.xml> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we always strive to ensure >>>>>>>>> that the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, >>>>>>>>> virus and worm-free. 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We assume neither liability nor responsibility >>>>>>>>> should something unpredictable happen. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by >>>>>>>>> visiting the list website at: >>>>>>>>> <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net ---> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> To reply to this post, please address your message to >>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Mac-Access >>>>>>>> forum at the list's public Mail Archive: >>>>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/>. >>>>>>>> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from: >>>>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.xml> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we always strive to ensure >>>>>>>> that the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus >>>>>>>> and worm-free. However, this should in no way replace your own >>>>>>>> security strategy. We assume neither liability nor responsibility >>>>>>>> should something unpredictable happen. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by >>>>>>>> visiting the list website at: >>>>>>>> <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net ---> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To reply to this post, please address your message to >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Mac-Access >>>>>>> forum at the list's public Mail Archive: >>>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/>. >>>>>>> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from: >>>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.xml> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we always strive to ensure >>>>>>> that the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus >>>>>>> and worm-free. However, this should in no way replace your own >>>>>>> security strategy. We assume neither liability nor responsibility >>>>>>> should something unpredictable happen. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by >>>>>>> visiting the list website at: >>>>>>> <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/> >>>>>> >>>>>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net ---> >>>>>> >>>>>> To reply to this post, please address your message to >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> >>>>>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Mac-Access >>>>>> forum at the list's public Mail Archive: >>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/>. >>>>>> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from: >>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.xml> >>>>>> >>>>>> As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we always strive to ensure >>>>>> that the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus >>>>>> and worm-free. However, this should in no way replace your own security >>>>>> strategy. We assume neither liability nor responsibility should >>>>>> something unpredictable happen. >>>>>> >>>>>> Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by >>>>>> visiting the list website at: >>>>>> <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/> >>>>>> >>>>>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net ---> >>>>>> >>>>>> To reply to this post, please address your message to >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> >>>>>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Mac-Access >>>>>> forum at the list's public Mail Archive: >>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/>. >>>>>> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from: >>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.xml> >>>>>> >>>>>> As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we always strive to ensure >>>>>> that the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus >>>>>> and worm-free. However, this should in no way replace your own security >>>>>> strategy. We assume neither liability nor responsibility should >>>>>> something unpredictable happen. >>>>>> >>>>>> Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by >>>>>> visiting the list website at: >>>>>> <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/> >>>>> >>>>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net ---> >>>>> >>>>> To reply to this post, please address your message to >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> >>>>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Mac-Access forum >>>>> at the list's public Mail Archive: >>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/>. >>>>> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from: >>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.xml> >>>>> >>>>> As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we always strive to ensure that >>>>> the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and >>>>> worm-free. However, this should in no way replace your own security >>>>> strategy. We assume neither liability nor responsibility should >>>>> something unpredictable happen. >>>>> >>>>> Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by >>>>> visiting the list website at: >>>>> <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/> >>>>> >>>>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net ---> >>>>> >>>>> To reply to this post, please address your message to >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> >>>>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Mac-Access forum >>>>> at the list's public Mail Archive: >>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/>. >>>>> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from: >>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.xml> >>>>> >>>>> As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we always strive to ensure that >>>>> the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and >>>>> worm-free. However, this should in no way replace your own security >>>>> strategy. We assume neither liability nor responsibility should >>>>> something unpredictable happen. >>>>> >>>>> Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by >>>>> visiting the list website at: >>>>> <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/> >>>> >>>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net ---> >>>> >>>> To reply to this post, please address your message to >>>> [email protected] >>>> >>>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Mac-Access forum >>>> at the list's public Mail Archive: >>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/>. >>>> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from: >>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.xml> >>>> >>>> As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we always strive to ensure that >>>> the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and >>>> worm-free. However, this should in no way replace your own security >>>> strategy. We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something >>>> unpredictable happen. >>>> >>>> Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by >>>> visiting the list website at: >>>> <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/> >>> >>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net ---> >>> >>> To reply to this post, please address your message to >>> [email protected] >>> >>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Mac-Access forum >>> at the list's public Mail Archive: >>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/>. >>> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from: >>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.xml> >>> >>> As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we always strive to ensure that >>> the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and >>> worm-free. However, this should in no way replace your own security >>> strategy. We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something >>> unpredictable happen. >>> >>> Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by >>> visiting the list website at: >>> <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/> >> >> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net ---> >> >> To reply to this post, please address your message to >> [email protected] >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Mac-Access forum at >> the list's public Mail Archive: >> <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/>. >> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from: >> <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.xml> >> >> As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we always strive to ensure that >> the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and >> worm-free. However, this should in no way replace your own security >> strategy. We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something >> unpredictable happen. >> >> Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by >> visiting the list website at: >> <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/> > > <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net ---> > > To reply to this post, please address your message to > [email protected] > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Mac-Access forum at > the list's public Mail Archive: > <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/>. > Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from: > <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.xml> > > As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we always strive to ensure that the > Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free. > However, this should in no way replace your own security strategy. We assume > neither liability nor responsibility should something unpredictable happen. > > Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by > visiting the list website at: > <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net ---> To reply to this post, please address your message to [email protected] You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Mac-Access forum at the list's public Mail Archive: <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/>. Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from: <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.xml> As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we always strive to ensure that the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free. However, this should in no way replace your own security strategy. We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something unpredictable happen. Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by visiting the list website at: <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/>
