Hi Mox, all (at least all interested),
Mox Soini schrieb:
Hi Bernhard, others.
While this discussion is not going to end anytime soon, I'll add
couple of words.
Thank you! At least I need more input to get a clue about how we can
find the best way for all of us.
[...] OOo projects (in general) have had much more emphasis on e.g.
Windows and Linux platforms. This has caused and continues to cause
that OOo on Mac OS X is very non-Mac application.
While it is admirable effort to make OOo a platform independent
office suite, it is a goal that requires making lot's of compromises.
If you want consistency, well then those compromises are ok.
Mac OS X platform and native Mac OS X software emphasise clean design
and "Mac experience". This is much much more important issue on Mac
OS X than it is on any other platform. [...]
Even for me as not-Mac-user this is one of the most important points WRT
the Mac platform (including the intuitive way of installation and
working with the application).
If the goal is well-designed application for each platform, instead
of consistency, then it becomes necessary to fine-tune OOo for each
platform.
I wouldn't call it "instead of consistency", but "additional to
consistency".
Primarily I thought about a single style containing the major points of
each operating system, but I found out quite fast, that this will not be
able to achieve: Some parts of the style guides are nearly contrary to
each other.
My goal in the moment is to find symbols (a folder for "open file",
scissors for "cut" and so on) and a color palette, that can be used for
all OS. Here I like the Galaxy theme very much as it leaves the more old
fashioned Windows symbolism towards a more modern look.
This is just the result of how different e.g. Windows and
Mac OS X are, on the deep level. Some idea can be gotten from
comparing the Windows GUI styleguide and Apple HIG (Human interface
guidelines).
What I found in Apple HIG about icons is quite general - I don't see any
problem in adapting these guidelines to other platforms.
I read the following pages and others - perhaps I missed something:
http://developer.apple.com/documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/OSXHIGuidelines/index.html
http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Carbon/Conceptual/DesktopIcons/ch13.html
The differences are visual, but they are also semantic (e.g. meaning
of looking glass, like clytie said). Changes are also needed in
toolbar design, menu structures, labels in menu etc...
This should be discussed more thoroughly:
For example, I can't imagine a different help system for different
platforms.
If you want to have a mere Mac application where menu structures
different from other OS are more important than being platform
independent, this would probably cause different developing efforts and
finally different applications - I don't know if this is the goal of the
Mac porting team.
....
I don't know if the really Mac-like OOo is ever going to happen. OOo
codebase makes that goal very very hard to achieve.
Looking at the negative reactions on the modification of the "page
format" menu position and naming in writer, OOo community seems to be
more interested in consistent and logical menu structures than in
adopting existing structures from a specific OS (and that's my personal
POV too).
As there is a new User Experience project on the way to being created,
these topics should be discussed there. This is not only related to a
single OS, but other projects (like marketing and documentation) are
involved as well.
In the meantime, it's nice that platform independent work is going
on. At least we get something better than is currently available.
:-) Perhaps it might become so Mac-like, that there is no need for a
different effort in development and design.
I see the Mac-like and platform-independent -efforts as parallel
projects. Both are valuable and needed. The latter has much better
chances at finishing what they have started.
I'd like to have them integrated as much as possible. And because
Windows users are not so interested in design topics, there might be a
real chance to have a "Mac-ish" application on Windows too.
Concerning the different Linux distributions there might be some (minor)
modifications necessary - but if the general impressions stays
consistent, this might not be a real problem.
Best regards
Bernhard
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