While this is true, even in the older systems a bad PRAM battery would cause mischief only when the machine was disconnected from all other power (for a laptop, that means adapterless and batteryless; for a desktop, that means unplugged or shut off with the power button, not slept). Otherwise, the Mac will always maintain power to those functions using the non-internal-battery power source. Unless you have a desktop, and unless you explicitly shut it down or have a home power failure, the PRAM battery (where present) will never come into play.
> On May 7, 2020, at 2:17 PM, Karl Kuehn <[email protected]> wrote: > > Michael, > I think you are misunderstanding what it going on with a bad PRAM battery. > The time being off is a side-effect, not the proximate cause of the problems > (restarts, etc). The problem is that the clock is not trustable (so not > always going the right direction), along with the maintaining consistency > with a number of firmware setting (think about mismatches between what > hardware and software think is happening). There probably is also some issue > with greying-out the power management hardware (which depends on that > battery). > > I don’t know if there is a separate battery anymore (and never knew it for > laptops), but I do know that people rarely knew to even look for problems > with the batteries (Apple techs included), and so I was able to solve a few > “unsolvable” issues with older hardware (way back when). > > — > Karl Kuehn > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > > > >> On May 7, 2020, at 1:47 PM, Macs R We <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> Well, yes and no. >> >> It's true a system clock time being set badly can screw up the encryption >> services, and that's one thing that a dead internal battery will cause. I >> save installation packages for all past OSX systems, and to install them I >> often have to set the system clock way back to be within their certificates' >> (short) expiration dates. Sometimes I forget to set it back, and start >> getting strange errors like "this website's certificate is not yet valid" >> until I remember. But it doesn't cause panics. And you would be able to >> figure out if that's a problem by just checking your current system time. >> Since Apple started making all their laptops with non-removable batteries, I >> don't think they even include a separate internal battery anymore. >> >> If you are getting true panics, you must have panic dumps available >> somewhere in the log area, and should be able to scan those. >> >> You should be able to examine your root certificates in Keychain Access; the >> app should be able to help you identify an untrusted one. >> >> Another thing that can cause reboots is benign — having the installation >> system set to install updates automatically, and some of these updates >> require a reboot. Usually the symptom of this is that you wake up to find >> yourself back at the login window. Still, the system logs would also >> identify this as a reboot reason. >> >>> On May 7, 2020, at 11:57 AM, Michael <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> >>> Hmm. "easy" enough to check, I just have to ... not ... use ... my computer >>> ... for a weekend? ... >>> >>> Maybe a few days midweek. >>> >>> On 2020-05-07, at 11:55 AM, larkost <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> >>>> I have no idea if this is the problem, but back when I was in the >>>> troubleshooting Macs business one problem I ran into was the PRAM battery >>>> (yes, wrong name, but...) going bad. It would cause all sorts of >>>> mysterious problems until replaced. >>>> >>>> The way of checking for this was to: >>>> 1. On a Friday make sure that the system time was set. >>>> 2. Disconnect the computer from all network connections, and unplug it >>>> from power. >>>> 3. Leave it over the weekend unplugged. >>>> 4. If the time was wrong when you booted up on Monday, then you found your >>>> problem. >>>> >>>> Of course this was with desktops, And a number of years ago. >>>> >>>> >>>>> On May 7, 2020, at 11:39 AM, Michael <[email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> This is unhappy for me also; I have gotten two panics in just about a >>>>> week. >>>>> >>>>> Absolutely nothing odd recorded in the system log. >>>>> >>>>> Meanwhile, on reboot, I see this message in the log: >>>>> >>>>> May 7 11:09:28 keybounceMBP apsd[141]: Failed to evaluate trust: No >>>>> error. (0), result=5; retrying with revocation checking optional >>>>> May 7 11:09:28 keybounceMBP apsd[141]: failed to evaluate trust: No >>>>> error. (0), result=5; retrying with system roots >>>>> May 7 11:09:28 keybounceMBP apsd[141]: Root certificate is not >>>>> explicitly trusted >>>>> May 7 11:09:28 keybounceMBP apsd[141]: Unrecognized leaf certificate >>>>> May 7 11:09:30 keybounceMBP SecurityAgent[215]: User info context values >>>>> set for >console >>>>> May 7 11:09:30 keybounceMBP loginwindow[120]: Login Window - Returned >>>>> from Security Agent >>>>> >>>>> What would make "Failure to evaluate trust: no error"? >>>>> >>>>> Would this be in any way related to some https web sites now refusing to >>>>> work because the certificate chain cannot be verified (the website in >>>>> question is just fine). >>>>> >>>>> OS: 10.9.5. >>>>> >>>>> System crash reporter directory shows nothing. There's networking diags >>>>> from just after the reboot. >>>>> >>>>> System diagnostics ... nothing new, but there was stuff from powerstats >>>>> just after midnight. There's a LOT of powerstat information over time >>>>> there. >>>>> >>>>> ... and a lot of wakeup and CPU dumps from firefox. Hmm. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On 2020-05-07, at 8:33 AM, Chris Walker <[email protected] >>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Tried to find the last reboot which *I think* was between 09 & 09:30am. >>>>>> >>>>>> All I could find in the system log was that it rebooted shortly after >>>>>> 9:00 am with no specified reason. The other logs didn’t tell me >>>>>> anything that I could understand but it may be that I have the time >>>>>> wrong and am therefore looking in the wrong place. >>>>>> >>>>>> I’m wondering if the best thing is to reinstall the system although that >>>>>> may leave something in place that really shouldn't be there, but until I >>>>>> can narrow the time down more accurately it’s a bit like looking for a >>>>>> needle in a haystack. >>>>>> >>>>>> Chris >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 7 May 2020, at 11:26, Macs R We <[email protected] >>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Look at System Information for your current uptime. Compute the time of >>>>>>> your last reboot. Launch Console and look at the system log, the >>>>>>> Diagnostic Reports folders (2), and the CrashReporter folder to see >>>>>>> what macOS claimed was the reason for the reboot. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On May 7, 2020, at 1:21 AM, Chris Walker <[email protected] >>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi all: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I keep getting random restarts. Whilst I’m away from the machine it >>>>>>>> will perform a restart for no reason I can determine. I have had >>>>>>>> problems with the power prefs not sticking but that appears to have >>>>>>>> been solved. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The machine feels warm but not unduly, so I don’t think it’s >>>>>>>> temperature related. I’ve scanned for malware using ClamXAV which >>>>>>>> found nothing and a recent Apple Diagnostic found no problems. I have >>>>>>>> an LG 24” 4K display connected via Thunderbolt. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Gatekeeper and XProtect are up to date. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Anyone any ideas as to the cause or possible solutions? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Mac Mini 2018, 3.2Ghz core i7; 32Gb Ram, MacOS 10.14.6 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> MacOSX-talk mailing list >>>>>>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>>> https://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk >>>>>>>> <https://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> MacOSX-talk mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>> https://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk >>>>>> <https://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk> >>>>> >>>>> --- >>>>> This message was composed with the aid of a laptop cat, and no mouse >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> MacOSX-talk mailing list >>>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>> https://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk >>>>> <https://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk> >>> >>> --- >>> Entertaining minecraft videos >>> http://YouTube.com/keybounce <http://youtube.com/keybounce> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> MacOSX-talk mailing list >>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>> https://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk >>> <https://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk> >
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