Usually, when returning from this state, you'll see a kind of phantom gray mockery of the start up progress bar screen, which is similar but with a weirdly different appearance.
I had occasion to work on the last MacBook Pro model with a removable battery last week, and discovered a weird Apple bug in El Capitan file migration (the last release that 2008 machine runs). It turns out that File migration refuses even to start migrating (with a completely unhelpful and generic error message) if there is no battery inserted in the unit. Reporting this to Apple today would be an exercise in futility, so I plan to just post it in a random blog somewhere with enough keywords to let people find it if they're having the same problem. > On May 7, 2020, at 4:24 PM, Michael <[email protected]> wrote: > > >>> On 2020-05-07, at 4:22 PM, Macs R We <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> When you knock the power connector out and the battery exhausts itself, >>> macOS will cause the machine to hibernate when the battery gets below a >>> certain percentage, just so that it can keep the state alive like an >>> internal battery would have, until you power it up again. Of course, if you >>> leave it in that state for a few weeks, it will eventually drain, but most >>> of the time that doesn't happen. >> >> So it wasn't even a real powerless test. >> >> Can't remove the battery on this one like I could on the old power PC. >> >> >>>> On May 7, 2020, at 2:44 PM, Michael <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>> >>>> On 2020-05-07, at 2:40 PM, Macs R We <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> While this is true, even in the older systems a bad PRAM battery would >>>> cause mischief only when the machine was disconnected from all other power >>>> (for a laptop, that means adapterless and batteryless; for a desktop, that >>>> means unplugged or shut off with the power button, not slept). Otherwise, >>>> the Mac will always maintain power to those functions using the >>>> non-internal-battery power source. Unless you have a desktop, and unless >>>> you explicitly shut it down or have a home power failure, the PRAM battery >>>> (where present) will never come into play. >>> >>> Actually, adapterless and batteryless was an issue recently. >>> >>> Kitty knocked the power cord out (magsafe does not mean it won't >>> disconnect; it means the connector won't be damaged when it disconnects) >>> and the battery drained. >>> >>> On the other hand, it did a full reboot after being reconnected, so ... >>> >>>> >>>>> On May 7, 2020, at 2:17 PM, Karl Kuehn <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Michael, >>>>> I think you are misunderstanding what it going on with a bad PRAM >>>>> battery. The time being off is a side-effect, not the proximate cause of >>>>> the problems (restarts, etc). The problem is that the clock is not >>>>> trustable (so not always going the right direction), along with the >>>>> maintaining consistency with a number of firmware setting (think about >>>>> mismatches between what hardware and software think is happening). There >>>>> probably is also some issue with greying-out the power management >>>>> hardware (which depends on that battery). >>>>> >>>>> I don’t know if there is a separate battery anymore (and never knew it >>>>> for laptops), but I do know that people rarely knew to even look for >>>>> problems with the batteries (Apple techs included), and so I was able to >>>>> solve a few “unsolvable” issues with older hardware (way back when). >>>>> >>>>> — >>>>> Karl Kuehn >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On May 7, 2020, at 1:47 PM, Macs R We <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Well, yes and no. >>>>>> >>>>>> It's true a system clock time being set badly can screw up the >>>>>> encryption services, and that's one thing that a dead internal battery >>>>>> will cause. I save installation packages for all past OSX systems, and >>>>>> to install them I often have to set the system clock way back to be >>>>>> within their certificates' (short) expiration dates. Sometimes I forget >>>>>> to set it back, and start getting strange errors like "this website's >>>>>> certificate is not yet valid" until I remember. But it doesn't cause >>>>>> panics. And you would be able to figure out if that's a problem by just >>>>>> checking your current system time. Since Apple started making all their >>>>>> laptops with non-removable batteries, I don't think they even include a >>>>>> separate internal battery anymore. >>>>>> >>>>>> If you are getting true panics, you must have panic dumps available >>>>>> somewhere in the log area, and should be able to scan those. >>>>>> >>>>>> You should be able to examine your root certificates in Keychain Access; >>>>>> the app should be able to help you identify an untrusted one. >>>>>> >>>>>> Another thing that can cause reboots is benign — having the installation >>>>>> system set to install updates automatically, and some of these updates >>>>>> require a reboot. Usually the symptom of this is that you wake up to >>>>>> find yourself back at the login window. Still, the system logs would >>>>>> also identify this as a reboot reason. >>>>>> >>>>>>> On May 7, 2020, at 11:57 AM, Michael <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hmm. "easy" enough to check, I just have to ... not ... use ... my >>>>>>> computer ... for a weekend? ... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Maybe a few days midweek. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 2020-05-07, at 11:55 AM, larkost <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I have no idea if this is the problem, but back when I was in the >>>>>>>> troubleshooting Macs business one problem I ran into was the PRAM >>>>>>>> battery (yes, wrong name, but...) going bad. It would cause all sorts >>>>>>>> of mysterious problems until replaced. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The way of checking for this was to: >>>>>>>> 1. On a Friday make sure that the system time was set. >>>>>>>> 2. Disconnect the computer from all network connections, and unplug it >>>>>>>> from power. >>>>>>>> 3. Leave it over the weekend unplugged. >>>>>>>> 4. If the time was wrong when you booted up on Monday, then you found >>>>>>>> your problem. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Of course this was with desktops, And a number of years ago. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On May 7, 2020, at 11:39 AM, Michael <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This is unhappy for me also; I have gotten two panics in just about >>>>>>>>> a week. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Absolutely nothing odd recorded in the system log. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Meanwhile, on reboot, I see this message in the log: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> May 7 11:09:28 keybounceMBP apsd[141]: Failed to evaluate trust: No >>>>>>>>> error. (0), result=5; retrying with revocation checking optional >>>>>>>>> May 7 11:09:28 keybounceMBP apsd[141]: failed to evaluate trust: No >>>>>>>>> error. (0), result=5; retrying with system roots >>>>>>>>> May 7 11:09:28 keybounceMBP apsd[141]: Root certificate is not >>>>>>>>> explicitly trusted >>>>>>>>> May 7 11:09:28 keybounceMBP apsd[141]: Unrecognized leaf certificate >>>>>>>>> May 7 11:09:30 keybounceMBP SecurityAgent[215]: User info context >>>>>>>>> values set for >console >>>>>>>>> May 7 11:09:30 keybounceMBP loginwindow[120]: Login Window - >>>>>>>>> Returned from Security Agent >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> What would make "Failure to evaluate trust: no error"? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Would this be in any way related to some https web sites now refusing >>>>>>>>> to work because the certificate chain cannot be verified (the website >>>>>>>>> in question is just fine). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> OS: 10.9.5. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> System crash reporter directory shows nothing. There's networking >>>>>>>>> diags from just after the reboot. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> System diagnostics ... nothing new, but there was stuff from >>>>>>>>> powerstats just after midnight. There's a LOT of powerstat >>>>>>>>> information over time there. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ... and a lot of wakeup and CPU dumps from firefox. Hmm. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 2020-05-07, at 8:33 AM, Chris Walker <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Tried to find the last reboot which *I think* was between 09 & >>>>>>>>>> 09:30am. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> All I could find in the system log was that it rebooted shortly >>>>>>>>>> after 9:00 am with no specified reason. The other logs didn’t tell >>>>>>>>>> me anything that I could understand but it may be that I have the >>>>>>>>>> time wrong and am therefore looking in the wrong place. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I’m wondering if the best thing is to reinstall the system although >>>>>>>>>> that may leave something in place that really shouldn't be there, >>>>>>>>>> but until I can narrow the time down more accurately it’s a bit like >>>>>>>>>> looking for a needle in a haystack. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 7 May 2020, at 11:26, Macs R We <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Look at System Information for your current uptime. Compute the >>>>>>>>>>> time of your last reboot. Launch Console and look at the system >>>>>>>>>>> log, the Diagnostic Reports folders (2), and the CrashReporter >>>>>>>>>>> folder to see what macOS claimed was the reason for the reboot. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On May 7, 2020, at 1:21 AM, Chris Walker <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I keep getting random restarts. Whilst I’m away from the machine >>>>>>>>>>>> it will perform a restart for no reason I can determine. I have >>>>>>>>>>>> had problems with the power prefs not sticking but that appears to >>>>>>>>>>>> have been solved. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> The machine feels warm but not unduly, so I don’t think it’s >>>>>>>>>>>> temperature related. I’ve scanned for malware using ClamXAV which >>>>>>>>>>>> found nothing and a recent Apple Diagnostic found no problems. I >>>>>>>>>>>> have an LG 24” 4K display connected via Thunderbolt. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Gatekeeper and XProtect are up to date. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Anyone any ideas as to the cause or possible solutions? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Mac Mini 2018, 3.2Ghz core i7; 32Gb Ram, MacOS 10.14.6 >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> MacOSX-talk mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> MacOSX-talk mailing list >>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>> https://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>> This message was composed with the aid of a laptop cat, and no mouse >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> MacOSX-talk mailing list >>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>> https://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --- >>>>>>> Entertaining minecraft videos >>>>>>> http://YouTube.com/keybounce >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> MacOSX-talk mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> https://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> --- >>> Entertaining minecraft videos >>> http://YouTube.com/keybounce >>> > > --- > Entertaining minecraft videos > http://YouTube.com/keybounce >
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