Is RubyMotion a full Ruby. Does it support reflection and metaprograming? Thanks, David Kramf
Begin forwarded message: > From: Francis Chong <fran...@ignition.hk> > Subject: Re: [MacRuby-devel] OS X10.9 & MacRuby's future... > Date: May 17, 2013 2:15:40 PM GMT+03:00 > To: "MacRuby development discussions." <macruby-devel@lists.macosforge.org> > Reply-To: "MacRuby development discussions." > <macruby-devel@lists.macosforge.org> > > While I'm really happy about OS X support on RubyMotion, it is not a > replacement for MacRuby. > > IMHO MacRuby is far superior: > > It offer JIT compiler, you develop orders of magnitude faster as you dont > need clean and rebuild every time. > > You have full ruby compatibility, load standard library as you wish. > > It loads gems and framework dynamically like what you would expected from > regular ruby. > > You don't have to write new gems, or rewrite them. Many gems just work, even > native ones could work. > > You can use regular technique for meta programming, and generally you don't > enter a uncanny valley between dynamic language and static build system. > > Some of these limitations are inherited from RubyMotion due to iOS > restriction, I don't see them going away anytime soon. > > That said, RubyMotion team is the ones who know most of MacRuby, and their > direction is not like MacRuby in past. If you are going to develop Mac app, > your best choice is probably go RubyMotion, or just use Objective-C. > — > Sent from Mailbox for iPhone > > > On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 7:02 AM, Carolyn Ann Grant > <carolyn.ann.gr...@gmail.com> wrote: > > I've changed my mind. :-) > > I translated part of a project into Obj-C, and it just wasn't the same. I > *like* the Ruby language, and while MacRuby has its foibles, it's still very > good. > > Here's my reasoning: Apple isn't going to do a consumer release of 10.9 any > time soon - according to the press reports I've read, it's being tested by > them, but the first developer release isn't expected until WWDC in June. > There's going to be a round of beta's, release candidates and so on, as per > normal, and then it'll have the consumer release, maybe by October, perhaps > November. I'm certainly not expecting anything as early as September! > > Now, if I keep up with using MacRuby, I then have the option of either > expanding my knowledge of MacRuby internals in meantime *and* be in a > position to use RubyMotion. If I switch to Obj-C now, switching to RubyMotion > or a newer MacRuby later will be either more work or not worth it. Meanwhile, > MacRuby works on Mountain Lion and while, as I said, it has it foibles, it's > still a lot more pleasurable writing code in Ruby than it is in Obj-C! > > I think that makes sense? > > Thanks again for the conversation! :-) > Carolyn > > > On May 16, 2013, at 3:05 PM, Carolyn Ann Grant <carolyn.ann.gr...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Thanks, Mark! >> >> Yeah, I know the price is more than reasonable, Mark, it's just that right >> now, we're not in a position to afford much of anything. Without getting too >> personal, we're still digging out from the Great Recession, which hit my >> family pretty hard. (As they say in DC, "mistakes were made", and I seem to >> have gone out of my way to make sure they were doozies!) I agree that >> HipByte is likely to work toward their own success; I'll definitely be >> looking at them when I can. >> >> I think at this point, I have to stick to Objective-C, as much as I really >> don't want to. Ruby is just so much better! As for why, I need to have >> confidence that I'm not investing a large amount of time and effort into >> something that I'll have to abandon when OS X 10.9 comes out. I've chased >> more than a few promising technologies, only to see them wither on the vine, >> so to speak. I've made such a habit of it, that I was beginning to think >> that if I was interested in something, it was likely on its way out! At this >> point, I simply can't afford to do that again. So while I'm not delighted to >> be writing code in Obj-C, at least I know it's going to be around for a few >> years. And I don't have to try and figure out what I did wrong with bridge >> support files, etc. >> >> I am disappointed, and I do wish I had the time and knowledge to further >> MacRuby, but I have to prioritize what gets my attention and what I'd like >> to do but can't. >> >> Thank you, all! :-) >> >> /Carolyn >> >> On May 16, 2013, at 2:38 PM, Mark Villacampa <markv...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> I'm a longtime RubyMotion user, and MacRuby user before that. I want to >>> share my view as to what is the current status of MacRuby and what can >>> happen in the future. >>> >>> The momentum around MacRuby has been inexistent for almost a year and a >>> half. That is, since Laurent Sansonetti (the original creator of MacRuby) >>> left Apple, and that left the project without maintainers who were being >>> paid to work on it. Only Watson and a couple other maintainers have been >>> doing maintenance work and fixing a couple of bugs. >>> >>> Since nobody is being paid to maintain it, and (AFAIK) there is no >>> company/individual whose main/critical systems depended on MacRuby, nobody >>> has taken over the project. This is pretty much a chicken-egg situation. >>> >>> That said, a year ago, Laurent launched RubyMotion, a product based on >>> MacRuby which introduces many new features, such as an ARC based memory >>> model, and iOS support (dropping OSX support). Just a few days ago, in the >>> first anniversary of RubyMotion, they introduced OSX support. >>> >>> Rubymotion is not open source, and the license costs 200$, plus an annual >>> renewal fee of 99$. Two reasons that people sometimes argue for not >>> investing in RM are: >>> >>> - "It's closed source, it might disappear at any moment": Actually, >>> RubyMotion is probably more likely to stay in the long term than MacRuby >>> was at the beginning. Despite Apple being a huge company, MacRuby was kind >>> of an experiment that they could kill at any moment. For HipByte (the >>> company behind Rubymotion), Rubymotion is its main product and the one that >>> pays its employees. They are way more interested in watching RM succeed >>> than Apple was in watching MacRuby succeed. >>> >>> - "It's too expensive": for playing around or releasing a pet project or >>> free app that is not one of your ways of income, that might be the case. >>> However, for a company or individual that wants to develop a product from >>> which they hope to get some revenue, that price is ridiculous. I've seen >>> PHP libraries for creating web forms more expensive than RubyMotion >>> (nothing against those libraries). We're talking about a static compiler >>> and a whole toolchain for developing iOS apps. If you're a student and want >>> to play around with RubyMotion, there is a student discount available (send >>> them an email for more information). >>> >>> So my conclusion is: If you want to develop OSX applications and you liked >>> MacRuby, invest in getting a RubyMotion license, you probably won't be >>> disappointed. >>> >>> Mark. >>> >>> On Thursday, May 16, 2013 at 8:01 PM, Christopher S Martin wrote: >>> >>>> They recently added support for OS X to rubymotion: >>>> http://blog.rubymotion.com/post/49943751398/rubymotion-goes-2-0-and-gets-os-x-support-templates >>>> That said, since rubymotion is (I believe) based off of macruby with some >>>> additions specifically around static compilation of apps, I don't know if >>>> the issues around GC/ARC would be any better in rubymotion on OS X, as >>>> I've only used it for iOS. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 10:56 AM, Jeff Dyck <fsjj...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> Just wanted to add a ditto to this - I'm looking at migrating some old >>>>> AppleScript Studio projects to MacRuby - my initial testing about a year >>>>> ago was great, but it seems the stability of MacRuby as a development >>>>> platform is in question to me at least... I've already been abandoned by >>>>> AppleScript Studio, don't really want to have to go through relearning a >>>>> new language and migrating projects a third time. >>>>> >>>>> I'm seeing a few comments on RubyMotion - does that work for developing >>>>> OS X projects as well? I was under the impression that was for iOS only, >>>>> but I can't say I've looked into it much. >>>>> >>>>> Jeff >>>>> >>>>> On May 16, 2013, at 10:40 AM, Michael Shantzis <mich...@shantzis.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> > Hello all (and especially Carolyn), >>>>> > >>>>> > I just want to say that I have the same question, specifically >>>>> > regarding the >>>>> > GC/ARC issue. >>>>> > >>>>> > The context in which this came up was very revealing. I had been >>>>> > developing a >>>>> > fairly complex Cocoa project (ARC enabled) and decided that I had to >>>>> > add some tests. >>>>> > Using MacRuby seemed like the natural solution. I quickly noticed, >>>>> > though, that I >>>>> > couldn't. >>>>> > >>>>> > Is there still any momentum behind MacRuby? Is there any solution to >>>>> > the issue >>>>> > of mixing it with ARC? I really hope the answer to these two questions >>>>> > is "yes." >>>>> > >>>>> > Thank you, >>>>> > Michael Shantzis >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > On May 16, 2013, at 8:32 AM, Carolyn Ann Grant >>>>> > <carolyn.ann.gr...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> > >>>>> >> Hi, I've got a question about the future of MacRuby. I like it, and >>>>> >> have started working on a project or two using it, but I've been >>>>> >> reading about GC and ARC, Ruby 2.0, RubyMotion and so on, and wonder >>>>> >> where MacRuby is going? I'm quite concerned because I've put a good >>>>> >> amount of time into my MacRuby projects. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> I wish I had the knowledge and skill to help with MacRuby - I really >>>>> >> do like it! - but unfortunately I don't. I also don't want to invest a >>>>> >> lot of further time in MacRuby if it's not going anywhere. (And I >>>>> >> really can't spare the $200 it would take to buy RubyMotion.) >>>>> >> >>>>> >> I know this comes across as a bit impertinent, but I really would like >>>>> >> to know what's happening with MacRuby development. Thanks! >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >> MacRuby-devel mailing list >>>>> >> MacRuby-devel@lists.macosforge.org >>>>> >> https://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo/macruby-devel >>>>> > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>> > MacRuby-devel mailing list >>>>> > MacRuby-devel@lists.macosforge.org >>>>> > https://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo/macruby-devel >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> MacRuby-devel mailing list >>>>> MacRuby-devel@lists.macosforge.org >>>>> https://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo/macruby-devel >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> MacRuby-devel mailing list >>>> MacRuby-devel@lists.macosforge.org >>>> https://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo/macruby-devel >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> MacRuby-devel mailing list >>> MacRuby-devel@lists.macosforge.org >>> https://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo/macruby-devel >> > > > _______________________________________________ > MacRuby-devel mailing list > MacRuby-devel@lists.macosforge.org > https://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo/macruby-devel
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