You brought up the 2009 article: why should we thank NFB for appologising for something they never should have published in the first place?
I'm not sure where this will lead. I think that work with apple developers and perhaps work under the hood to the native controls would make more of a difference. Perhaps developers can choose to have these checks enabled, and these checks can insure that specific labels are set, etc etc which would generally make the app more accessible. This is also up to the developer, but it would greatly help I think in targetting exactly what needs to be done.
On 7/12/2014 11:15 PM, Ray Foret Jr wrote:
Okay.I am changing the subject because I think it's high time I said something. I well remember how many Mac users strongly criticized the NFB for their June 2009 Braille Monitor article on Voice Over. That criticism was fully justified: let there be no doubt about that. On the other hand, how many Mac users gave the NFB credit for the retraction printed in the December 2009 Monitor article? Not many I seem to recall. Look, it's your business whether or not you hate the NFB and I cannot change your minds about that. I'm not even going to try. But, frankly, I think it's very shallow minded to have this kind of hatred controlling the issue when what we need to do is have a balanced and mature conversation. Hate us all you want: but, remember, there are NFB members who use Macs and iPHones and other Apple products too. For what it may be worth, I do not hate anyone in the ACB. Why should I? They've never done anything to me to merit such hatred. I would add this. My own state, Louisiana, voted against the resolution at the convention this year. This somewhat took me by surprise. I did not expect that to happen, but it did. Look, we who are NFB members and who use our Apple products love them as much as you do. I know that, for myself, I will never touch windows again. I'd sooner be without a computer totally than to do that. I do not believe it is at all reasonable to ask the current generation to bear the hatreds of the past. 1961 is long gone: as the hatred of those days should also be. Condemn what I say if you wish: (That's your right.): but, just bear in mind that the only one being effected by your hatred of people like me is yourself. I don't hate you. You see, it's frightfully simple. Those who hate you don't win unless you hate them. Have what ever feelings you choose towards me and what I say: but, bear in mind that we really need to rise above such things and continue to help each other with Apple product issues. After all, is that not the principal purpose of this list? When I first joined, I received much good help from the members of this list. I would hate to depart from this list over feelings of bitterness and hatred with respect either to the ACB or NFB. No. I cannot change how you feel: but, frankly, I'd prefer a gentler tone.Sincerely, the Constantly Barefooted Ray, Still a very happy Mac and iphone user!Sent from my Mac, the only computer with full accessibility for the blind built-in!On Jul 12, 2014, at 9:57 PM, David Chittenden <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:It is probably more like, NFB attempted to dialogue with Apple. Apple rebuffed NFB, like Apple rebuffs any organization doing something similar. NFB passes a resolution which they can then take back to Apple and say, See, the blind are behind us because we are the blind and this resolution was passed at our convention, so you really need to dialogue with us.What will be the result? Apple will again rebuff NFB, just like Apple rebuffs any organization attempting such an approach. NFB may well become in-sensed again and we will see some form of tantrum from NFB. As I recall, when Apple did not send an official representative to NFB National Convention to receive the awards NFB gave Apple, a few months later articles appeared in the Braille Monitor proving how horrible VoiceOver was on the Mac. Yes, I suspect NFB will do something just as idiotic this time when their scheme does not work yet again.David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhoneOn 13 Jul 2014, at 13:57, Tristan <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:I feel the need to point out this article: https://nfb.org/blog/vonb-blog/comments-apple-and-nfb-resolution-2014-12 This gives me a largely new prospective on this; I was really inclined to agree with everyone's opinions on this at first, but it honestly looks like they're trying to work with, and not threaten Apple at the core of the resolution. If this link has been posted prior, I apologize, but thought I'd share. While I do think it's an unnecessary step, it does not look like a slap in the face to apple nor a step backwards. It's something that I personally wouldn't care about and probably wouldn't pay attention to, because I'm comfortable with the way apps are handled on both Mac and iOS.On 7/12/14, Karen Lewellen <[email protected]> wrote: I cannot imagine it being about anything else but nfb getting money in exchange for building in limitations. Granted I make no secret of choosing my own dictionary.But why on earth in the 21st century is anyone still worshiping at the nfbaltar anyway? So they pass a resolution...and? The only reason apple feels they must entertain them, is because other customers do not indicate they have minds imaginations and interests of their own.a bunch of people gave this organization power, those same people, who BTW have within themselves the ability to write their own dictionaries aboutblindness and anything else, can tell the nfb they have out grown the need for such a body anymore.I simply do not understand why one conformity is exchanged for another, oneperson's ideas of limitations exchanged for those the nfb create with their mindset. KareOn Sat, 12 Jul 2014, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: Karen:I fully agree. It really does feel like we're slapping Apple in the face,forcing them to conform. I really really hope this doesn't work, becauseit'sgoing to create a huge mess and totally redefine apps. Not everything is accessible but that really is fine with me; usually I can find an app thatis. It's what happens when you use anything, really. My thoughts are mainlymoney based: how much money will NFB get for consulting for something likethis, and secondly how is this trash going to redefine apps on the iPhone?It's not going to be all that hard for NFB to use their power to force things into IOS/apps that don't need to be there, force things out, etc.On 7/12/2014 9:25 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote: Let me see if I understand this.Apple who has built in innovation on its own must discuss with the nfbhow to now limit that innovation to fit the nfb's one size fits all definitionof blindness? as in all blind people are interchangeable, and the nfbis the only source to tell you how to find a plug and play blind person by which you measure what works for them...all 400 plus million of them? I wonder how much money they plan on extorting for this dialog?Not only should it be a blanket resolution, BTW android phones are the most popular in use now according to annual surveys, but this dialogshould involve many organizations, and a group of apple customers who are not members of a consumer organization whatsoever. The very suggestion that a single body is in a position to speak for every child born of women who happens to have the label blind attached to themis a stereotypes that really needs to end. otherwise the individualitythat is the rich experience of redefining blindness is not going to exist for the millions who need not buy the nfb line to live freely and inclusively.Why does the nfb not spend its energy training software developers whofit their one size fits all blindness box? Many companies besides Apple would get the benefits that way. just my take, KarenOn Sat, 12 Jul 2014, Pamela Francis wrote: Hello, I personally am not in favor of this resolution; not because I don't want accessibility. Apple took the lead in making its products accessible without government or organizational intervention. Microsoft, on the other hand, allowed third-party vendors to do its work within accessibility. Google, though it has come along way, still does not want to adhere to its own standards unless it is pressed. If there was a resolution to be had, it should've been a blanket resolution for all companies dealing with accessibility. Picking on Apple, is as if we as a blind community are slapping it in the face given that it has continued its efforts to remain accessible. I understand the need for utilitarian apps such as maps, transit maps, notes, lists, etc. to remain accessible as they are a necessary functionin normal life. However, just to use as an example I don't necessarilyneed Angry Birds to be accessible for my benefit nor do I need it to bethreatened to be kicked from the app store due to inaccessibility forthe sake of millions of people who enjoy it. As we continue to strive for accessibility in all areas, we need not be a bully to the company that went out of its way to make its products accessible from the beginning.We also do not need to be put into a societal box allowing electronicsmanufacturers, appliance manufacturers, and the general public to believe that all we are capable of is operating an iPhone. We are on thecusp of choice. We have fought for choice for a long time. This typeofa resolution makes us look militant and ungrateful. What is fair forone company is fair for all. Pam FrancisOn Jul 12, 2014, at 9:28 AM, Terje Strømberg <[email protected]>wrote:The NFB Resolution is very important for all blind and low vision allover the world. We all want accessible digital future. A link to a comment from the president in NFB: https://nfb.org/blog/vonb-blog/comments-apple-and-nfb-resolution-2014-12 Take care -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, sendan email to [email protected].To post to this group, send email to [email protected].Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, sendan email to [email protected].To post to this group, send email to [email protected].Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. 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