I have to agree with you here. Poor Nicky was having a hard time with it and frustration leads to anger and anger can lead into rash or less than rational statements; we all do it, sometimes. Swearing is all about irrational and meaningless statements; bet there's a good many here do a good bit of that, too.
Yes, Me too. I empathise with her, I take 'puter issues rather badly as well. So, all the advice and solutions gratefully received. Flack don't help anybody any more than ranting about the problems. R, thinks so. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen Lewellen" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2014 10:50 PM Subject: Re: iOs 8.1 performance on iPhone 4S Perhaps the problem begins by assuming that there is such a thing as "the blind," uniformly using choosing and personifying a single individual. There will be people who find the upgrade very wonderful for them, there will be, are clearly, individuals who do not. that has zero to do with blindness and 100% to do with individuality. A fine thing thank you very much, its what makes us human and uniquely interesting at a party. I have a slightly silly but very sincere question...perhaps best addressed to Sir. Tim off list. Consider it to be rhetorical. If you have a device that meets most of our needs, allowing you to compute as you desire, why would you decide to upgrade to something that might not meet your needs in the same way? and without being sure in advance you will not lose ground? Especially since, as I understand it, downgrades are well rather a challenge? I am forthright about my alternative dictionary. still because I prefer a steady reliable and firm tool...say like a hammer or screwdriver, I do not personally decide I need to change my entire computer foundation unless there are things I can no longer do with that foundation. Speaking only for myself, which frankly goes for humans in general, I find this a more practical way to keep things on target professionally. The so called the blind should take what they are handed concept refers to a nonexistent hypothetical entity that is totally interchangeable...at last count having 400 million pairs of feet. if that does not sound like you, make your own computer choices. Just my far from the insider take, Kare On Sat, 25 Oct 2014, Cheree Heppe wrote: > What happens if we can't use more and more while sending fix requests? > Didn't someone say a while back that the blind aren't a buying majority > and should gratefully accept what we are handed? > > Sent from my IPhone 4S > > On 25 Oct 2014, at 15:03, Shawn Krasniuk <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hi. Well said Tim. Nothing good will come if we're not reasonable. For > example, when I received the first public beta of Yosemite, for some > reason Text Edit wouldn't open any files ending with the .docx extension. > I immediately launched the Feedback Assistant app and reported this bug to > Apple. Another bug that was present in the beta, and I don't know if it's > still present today, is when clicking the lock to make changes in the > security tab to allow apps to open that haven't been downloaded from the > App Store, my choice was ignored after the fact I made the change. If that > bug is still present today, I won't be sitting here moaning to you guys > that it's still present and basically bashing Apple because let's face it, > that would be a waste of mine and your time, and might make some people > laugh or maybe angry. Instead, I'll be sending an email to Apple or if we > can still use it even though this isn't a beta, I'll use the Feedback > Assistant to report the bug. > Another point that Tim made is about Apple's commitment to accessibility. > I don't think that it has slid at all. In my 4 years that I've used Apple > products, (4 years on November 3rd), I find accessibility about the same > or a bit better. First I bought this MacBook, then the iPod Nanno, then > the iTouch 4, the iPhone 4, 4S, and now 5S. All these devices have done > pretty much all I've wanted them to do. And guess what. My next computer > if this white MacBook goes down the crapper or if Yosemite will be the > last operating system I can upgrade to will probably be a MacBook Air > because I know Apple products can get what I need to be accomplished done. > And also like I said in a previous thread, PC's and I don't get along. :) > > Shawn > Sent From My White MacBook > >> On Oct 25, 2014, at 2:03 PM, Pamela Francis <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> Hi Tim, >> Your position is fair. I don't disagree, other thanThe complaints being >> registered within bothIOS and Yosemite concern the apps that are >> shipped on each respective product. Do we not have reasonable >> expectation for the same accessibility for the stock apps included within >> Apple OS be it OS 10 or iOS eight? That's my only question. Thanks much >> >> Pam Francis >> >> On Oct 25, 2014, at 1:19 PM, Tim Kilburn <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Hi Cheri and All, >> >> In my opinion, you have made some inaccurate assertions here. The >> quality of the voices that you’ve expressed is likely due to your iDevice >> defaulting back to the low quality, non-enhanced version of the voices. >> Normal behaviour during the update process. If you download the enhanced >> version of your preferred voice, you’ll find the quality is as good or >> better than it was in iOS 7. The download can be achieved in the >> Settings, General Accessibility, VoiceOver under the Speech section. >> Switching between voices is the same as it was in iOS 7 when your >> Language preferences are included in the Rotor, which is also configured >> in the same area outlined earlier. Regarding the descriptions of >> Wallpaper etc, I didn’t notice this and it is disappointing from an >> accessibility point of view. >> >> Regarding yours and others opinions on Apple’s commitment to >> accessibility, over-exaggeration and inaccurate accusations or >> assumptions usually don’t go very far. For example, I had a co-worker >> that used to put in Work Orders to our Maintenance department saying that >> it was so cold in the room that things were freezing to the floor and >> other surfaces. Maintenance came over right away and determined that it >> was a few degrees colder than she liked. In future Work Orders, she was >> not given near the priority attention that she originally received due to >> her tendency for over-blowing a situation. While our desires for >> accessibility to be perfect and to never get broken in an update is fair, >> it’s not likely going to be realized in all cases. Any OS, be it iOS, >> MacOS, Chrome-OS or even Windows is a complex, interdependent interaction >> between processes. Sometimes the fixing of one factor breaks another. >> Sometimes it takes a bit of work by the software engineers to figure out >> how to make certain things work properly together. Even with >> beta-testers galore, not every glitch is found out prior to release. >> This sort of thing happens whether it’s an accessibility feature or just >> a regular part of the user experience. >> >> For example, tearing into Apple about them changing the look and feel of >> iTunes and claiming that they have broken accessibility is an inaccurate >> statement. The actual accessibility of iTunes hasn’t changed at all, >> what has changed is how we access the various features. How easy it is >> for you to manage the changes is not a factor of accessibility, it may be >> a level of comfort or ease of use factor, but accessibility in the manner >> that VO users use the term has to do with elements being visible and/or >> usable. The device accessibility market is by no means particularly >> mature at this point in time, so, I’d venture to say that any device we >> put in our hands will have good and bad with respect to accessibility. >> Android this, Windows that, Apple thing-a-ma-bobber and whoever’s talking >> which-a-macall-it all work to some respect but have limitations and/or >> frustrations. No point in dissing Apple, Google or windows for that >> matter, it’s unproductive. >> >> So, after all this, I guess what I’m saying is continue submitting bug >> reports and feature requests, and, expect for them to be addressed but be >> reasonable. >> bug reports should be clear, expressing the facts of the issue, outlining >> how and where it occurs, certainly they can include how it affects your >> productivity but exaggeration and accusation need not be a part. >> Progress is occurring, will continue to occur and is necessary. >> >> That’s my rant for the week. Have a good day all. >> >> Later… >> >> Tim Kilburn >> Fort McMurray, AB Canada >> >>> On Oct 25, 2014, at 9:19 AM, Cheree Heppe <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Cheree Heppe here: >>> Even with the problems listed over a wide range of applications, I >>> updated one of my iOS devices last night. If what I am learning about >>> 8.1 is symptomatic, I think blind users can kiss good Apple access >>> good-bye. >>> One area: I remember getting my first iPhone and, in extreme skepticism >>> and with the half-done, JAWS and PC based accessibility as a precursor >>> experience, decided to find out whether the Wallpapers section gave >>> access, or merely lip service to Universal Design. >>> How amazed and delight I felt when each photo featured an artistic and >>> pleasing description of the photo. The description didnt just say photo >>> dot png or stick in woods dot whatever, these descriptions went that >>> extra step that separates accessibility wannabees from practitioners of >>> Universal Design. >>> In 8.1, I opened the Brightness and Wallpapers section on my iPad 2. >>> Every photo gave those hald done, cursury, non-descriptive labels >>> characterized by no info, ugly word choice to mirror the photo and the >>> png ending, just to make sure anybody who cant see the png knows this >>> isnt for them. >>> It is my intention to cancel my order for an upgraded iPhone 6 and not >>> to upgrade to iOS 8 point anything. >>> The voices on iOS 8 point whatever sound modified. They sound >>> artificial and there is no longer the ease of switching between voices. >>> Switching between voices has now become a secret process, or, at least, >>> unavailable to me, a blind user. >>> My thoughts, but, I am leaning toward making a change before the whole >>> archology goes south. >>> >>> Sad and very disappointed. Aple has had access to some really >>> discerning, brilliant blind users who could give really cogent advice in >>> the best user mode. I guess that isnt who is being listened to. >>> >>> Careless, sloppy, inattention to detail. Disregard for user specific >>> needs. >>> >>> Very sad. >>> >>> Bye-bye. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Cheree Heppe >>> >>> >>> Sent from my IPhone 4S >>> >>> On 25 Oct 2014, at 1:26, [email protected] wrote: >>> >>> Its disappointing to know that the issues are not fixed in 8.1. >>> Thanks. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On 23-Oct-2014, at 4:34 am, Jessica Moss <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I had those same issues with my 4S, which I unfortunately didn't >>>> realize I was going to before I updated it, due to the fact that it's >>>> an older phone, and actually had no idea you could downgrade again, so >>>> you did the right thing doing that, sense you were going to have a >>>> rough time of it unless you plan on upgrading your phone any time soon. >>>>> On Oct 22, 2014, at 1:31 AM, Venkatesh Potluri <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi list, >>>>> I am using a 16GB iPhone 4S. I updated to iOs 8 and had a lot of >>>>> issues so had to downgrade back to 7.1. My phone got a lot slower, >>>>> apps like whatsapp and messenger kept constantly crashing and VO >>>>> randomly restarts it self. i had many accidental touches, accidental >>>>> calls, etc. I wish to know if these issues have been resolved in 8.1. >>>>> Another major reason for me wanting to upgrade is the Flecksy >>>>> keyboard. How good is it? I read that there are still problems using >>>>> it. are there any show stopper bugs? Is the Looktel money reader >>>>> working fine in 8.1? >>>>> Thank you. >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Venkatesh Potluri >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. 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