Whatever did blind people do in the Dark Ages, before accessibility
became part of the language? As long as you have owned Apple products,
have you ever had a product with zero defects in hardware, software,
accessibility features?
From The Believer. . .
. . . what if it were true?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com
On 10/25/2014 3:16 PM, Cheree Heppe wrote:
What happens if we can't use more and more while sending fix requests? Didn't
someone say a while back that the blind aren't a buying majority and should
gratefully accept what we are handed?
Sent from my IPhone 4S
On 25 Oct 2014, at 15:03, Shawn Krasniuk <bbssh...@icloud.com> wrote:
Hi. Well said Tim. Nothing good will come if we're not reasonable. For example,
when I received the first public beta of Yosemite, for some reason Text Edit
wouldn't open any files ending with the .docx extension. I immediately launched
the Feedback Assistant app and reported this bug to Apple. Another bug that was
present in the beta, and I don't know if it's still present today, is when
clicking the lock to make changes in the security tab to allow apps to open
that haven't been downloaded from the App Store, my choice was ignored after
the fact I made the change. If that bug is still present today, I won't be
sitting here moaning to you guys that it's still present and basically bashing
Apple because let's face it, that would be a waste of mine and your time, and
might make some people laugh or maybe angry. Instead, I'll be sending an email
to Apple or if we can still use it even though this isn't a beta, I'll use the
Feedback Assistant to report the bug.
Another point that Tim made is about Apple's commitment to accessibility. I
don't think that it has slid at all. In my 4 years that I've used Apple
products, (4 years on November 3rd), I find accessibility about the same or a
bit better. First I bought this MacBook, then the iPod Nanno, then the iTouch
4, the iPhone 4, 4S, and now 5S. All these devices have done pretty much all
I've wanted them to do. And guess what. My next computer if this white MacBook
goes down the crapper or if Yosemite will be the last operating system I can
upgrade to will probably be a MacBook Air because I know Apple products can get
what I need to be accomplished done. And also like I said in a previous thread,
PC's and I don't get along. :)
Shawn
Sent From My White MacBook
On Oct 25, 2014, at 2:03 PM, Pamela Francis <gypsykitt...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Tim,
Your position is fair. I don't disagree, other thanThe complaints being
registered within bothIOS and Yosemite concern the apps that are shipped on
each respective product. Do we not have reasonable expectation for the
same accessibility for the stock apps included within Apple OS be it OS 10 or
iOS eight? That's my only question. Thanks much
Pam Francis
On Oct 25, 2014, at 1:19 PM, Tim Kilburn <kilbu...@me.com> wrote:
Hi Cheri and All,
In my opinion, you have made some inaccurate assertions here. The quality of
the voices that you've expressed is likely due to your iDevice defaulting back
to the low quality, non-enhanced version of the voices. Normal behaviour
during the update process. If you download the enhanced version of your
preferred voice, you'll find the quality is as good or better than it was in
iOS 7. The download can be achieved in the Settings, General Accessibility,
VoiceOver under the Speech section. Switching between voices is the same as it
was in iOS 7 when your Language preferences are included in the Rotor, which is
also configured in the same area outlined earlier. Regarding the descriptions
of Wallpaper etc, I didn't notice this and it is disappointing from an
accessibility point of view.
Regarding yours and others opinions on Apple's commitment to accessibility,
over-exaggeration and inaccurate accusations or assumptions usually don't go
very far. For example, I had a co-worker that used to put in Work Orders to
our Maintenance department saying that it was so cold in the room that things
were freezing to the floor and other surfaces. Maintenance came over right
away and determined that it was a few degrees colder than she liked. In future
Work Orders, she was not given near the priority attention that she originally
received due to her tendency for over-blowing a situation. While our desires
for accessibility to be perfect and to never get broken in an update is fair,
it's not likely going to be realized in all cases. Any OS, be it iOS, MacOS,
Chrome-OS or even Windows is a complex, interdependent interaction between
processes. Sometimes the fixing of one factor breaks another. Sometimes it
takes a bit of work by the software engineers to figure out how
to make certain things work properly together. Even with beta-testers galore,
not every glitch is found out prior to release. This sort of thing happens
whether it's an accessibility feature or just a regular part of the user
experience.
For example, tearing into Apple about them changing the look and feel of iTunes
and claiming that they have broken accessibility is an inaccurate statement.
The actual accessibility of iTunes hasn't changed at all, what has changed is
how we access the various features. How easy it is for you to manage the
changes is not a factor of accessibility, it may be a level of comfort or ease
of use factor, but accessibility in the manner that VO users use the term has
to do with elements being visible and/or usable. The device accessibility
market is by no means particularly mature at this point in time, so, I'd
venture to say that any device we put in our hands will have good and bad with
respect to accessibility. Android this, Windows that, Apple thing-a-ma-bobber
and whoever's talking which-a-macall-it all work to some respect but have
limitations and/or frustrations. No point in dissing Apple, Google or windows
for that matter, it's unproductive.
So, after all this, I guess what I'm saying is continue submitting bug reports
and feature requests, and, expect for them to be addressed but be reasonable.
bug reports should be clear, expressing the facts of the issue, outlining how
and where it occurs, certainly they can include how it affects your
productivity but exaggeration and accusation need not be a part. Progress is
occurring, will continue to occur and is necessary.
That's my rant for the week. Have a good day all.
Later...
Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada
On Oct 25, 2014, at 9:19 AM, Cheree Heppe <che...@dogsc4me.com> wrote:
Cheree Heppe here:
Even with the problems listed over a wide range of applications, I updated one
of my iOS devices last night. If what I am learning about 8.1 is symptomatic,
I think blind users can kiss good Apple access good-bye.
One area: I remember getting my first iPhone and, in extreme skepticism and
with the half-done, JAWS and PC based accessibility as a precursor experience,
decided to find out whether the Wallpapers section gave access, or merely lip
service to Universal Design.
How amazed and delight I felt when each photo featured an artistic and pleasing
description of the photo. The description didnt just say photo dot png or
stick in woods dot whatever, these descriptions went that extra step that
separates accessibility wannabees from practitioners of Universal Design.
In 8.1, I opened the Brightness and Wallpapers section on my iPad 2. Every
photo gave those hald done, cursury, non-descriptive labels characterized by no
info, ugly word choice to mirror the photo and the png ending, just to make
sure anybody who cant see the png knows this isnt for them.
It is my intention to cancel my order for an upgraded iPhone 6 and not to
upgrade to iOS 8 point anything.
The voices on iOS 8 point whatever sound modified. They sound artificial and
there is no longer the ease of switching between voices. Switching between
voices has now become a secret process, or, at least, unavailable to me, a
blind user.
My thoughts, but, I am leaning toward making a change before the whole
archology goes south.
Sad and very disappointed. Aple has had access to some really discerning,
brilliant blind users who could give really cogent advice in the best user
mode. I guess that isnt who is being listened to.
Careless, sloppy, inattention to detail. Disregard for user specific needs.
Very sad.
Bye-bye.
Regards,
Cheree Heppe
Sent from my IPhone 4S
On 25 Oct 2014, at 1:26, venky...@gmail.com wrote:
Its disappointing to know that the issues are not fixed in 8.1.
Thanks.
Sent from my iPhone
On 23-Oct-2014, at 4:34 am, Jessica Moss <junglebookfa...@gmail.com> wrote:
I had those same issues with my 4S, which I unfortunately didn't realize I was
going to before I updated it, due to the fact that it's an older phone, and
actually had no idea you could downgrade again, so you did the right thing
doing that, sense you were going to have a rough time of it unless you plan on
upgrading your phone any time soon.
On Oct 22, 2014, at 1:31 AM, Venkatesh Potluri <venky...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi list,
I am using a 16GB iPhone 4S. I updated to iOs 8 and had a lot of
issues so had to downgrade back to 7.1. My phone got a lot slower,
apps like whatsapp and messenger kept constantly crashing and VO
randomly restarts it self. i had many accidental touches, accidental
calls, etc. I wish to know if these issues have been resolved in 8.1.
Another major reason for me wanting to upgrade is the Flecksy
keyboard. How good is it? I read that there are still problems using
it. are there any show stopper bugs? Is the Looktel money reader
working fine in 8.1?
Thank you.
Cheers,
Venkatesh Potluri
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