Hi, Cheryl is correct in that using your computer as a phone in Yosemite requires a working iPhone as well as both the computer and iPhone being on the same WiFi network. When you’re having extreme problems like this one appears to sound like, do not rely on doing things via a WiFi or “untethered” connection. Always revert to connecting your iDevice to the computer with your USB charging cable. Many of us don’t have access to Apple Stores or even Apple Certified Service Providers within a reasonable distance, so, doing things yourself or with the support of Apple on the phone is our only option. In this situation, you should be able to restore the phone using your Mac while tethered with the cable.
Try this site for assistance and move to the advanced steps if needed: http://support.apple.com/en-ca/HT201210 HTH. Later... Tim Kilburn Fort McMurray, AB Canada > On Dec 12, 2014, at 07:51, Jessica Moss <[email protected]> wrote: > > I unfortunately didn't have a choice but to do that though, which I didn't > know could mess things up, considering the fact that once the progress bar > just decided to just sit there, my phone just went useless. I lost my whole > connection with everything, couldn't exit go back to the home screen, so > couldn't do anything with it, and I don't have a backup phone and am > fortunately lucky enough to have Mom loan me her's for today, but that won't > be the case forever, and can't get to a store any time soon in order to get > it replaced, so am working on getting in touch with them to get it replaced. > On Dec 12, 2014, at 7:30 AM, Cheryl Homiak <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > >> The fact that you tried to change to the computer in the middle of the >> attempted download and update might possibly have confused things in some >> way though I think people have done that successfully. Progress bars have >> been known to stay at a certain point for quite a while without it meaning >> something is wrong but I think people have also switched to the computer in >> the middle and been okay. >> Yes, Apple does require appointments unless you can get a walk-in, which I >> guess you now know. What happens often, though not always, is that the >> person calls Apple for over-the-phone help and when they are unable to solve >> the problem they advise you to make an appointment with the Apple store. I >> think that's the way I knew an appointment was needed when I had to go in >> for some reason. >> -- >> Cheryl >> >> >> Go beyond the Christmas story this year; >> meet Immanuel (God with us), >> Jesus, the crucified Savior, >> Christ, the risen LORD!!! >> >> >> >> >> >>> On Dec 12, 2014, at 6:17 AM, Jessica Moss <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> >>> I took it into the Sprint store yesterday afternoon, and they did the same >>> things I tried to do and had no luck. So tried taking it to an Apple store >>> and had no idea you had to go on an appointment basis, and it was so late >>> by the time we got there that the only walk in they had available was about >>> 10-20 minuttes later, and at that point it was close to 6:00 at night, so >>> nobody felt like waiting that long, so will just call Sprint and have them >>> send me a new one. >>> I just don't get what would cause my phone to go bonkers like that just >>> over an update. It was doing this crazy thing where it just was showing me >>> the progress bar, which wasn't going anywhere, so I plugged it into the >>> computer, and it started to download from there, but the progress bar on >>> the phone was still sitting, then it all went to Hell in a handbasket from >>> there. >>> On Dec 11, 2014, at 12:27 PM, Cheryl Homiak <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> >>>> If you haven't been able to do anything with it, I think your choices are >>>> to call apple or take it in. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Cheryl >>>> >>>> >>>> Go beyond the Christmas story this year; >>>> meet Immanuel (God with us), >>>> Jesus, the crucified Savior, >>>> Christ, the risen LORD!!! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Dec 11, 2014, at 10:29 AM, Jessica Moss <[email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Ok, what would you recommend in order for me to fix it then, short of >>>>> going to a store to fix it? I've been researching it for hours, and am >>>>> not getting very far. >>>>> On Dec 11, 2014, at 11:10 AM, Cheryl Homiak <[email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> But making calls from your computer in Yosemite, if I understand >>>>>> correctly, actually uses your phone. You aren't independently making >>>>>> calls from your Mac if I understand correctly. So I don't think it will >>>>>> help you to make calls if you upgrade to Yosemite but your phone is >>>>>> broken. And I could be wrong but if the phone is giving you an error >>>>>> message and a connect to iTunes message, whatever is wrong, it is not >>>>>> truly bricked though I know that's small comfort since you can't use it. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Cheryl >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Go beyond the Christmas story this year; >>>>>> meet Immanuel (God with us), >>>>>> Jesus, the crucified Savior, >>>>>> Christ, the risen LORD!!! >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Dec 11, 2014, at 9:56 AM, Jessica Moss <[email protected] >>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ok, the reason I posted it there, was because I know you can make calls >>>>>>> with it, and considering the fact my phone only gives me the message to >>>>>>> connect to itunes, which I was lucky enough to have someone here to >>>>>>> read to me because it's completely silent. I know you can make calls >>>>>>> using the mac once you upgrade, which I need to do sense I don't have a >>>>>>> backup phone, but obviously have to have my phone when I'm out and >>>>>>> about, and it won't restore even in recovery mode, just gives me an >>>>>>> error1 message, and in the meantime I'm having to use Mom's phone, >>>>>>> which I can't continuously rely on sense she's not always going to be >>>>>>> here. >>>>>>> On Dec 11, 2014, at 10:45 AM, Cheryl Homiak <[email protected] >>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Note that i have started a new thread for this question. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You posted this to a Yosemite thread where people were talking about >>>>>>>> their experiences with the upgrade and you are talking about your 5C. >>>>>>>> So are you talking about upgrading to Yosemite? If your phone really >>>>>>>> is bricked, I don't see that upgradeing to Yosemite is going to help >>>>>>>> you any; iTunes gets updates still in Mavericks as far as I know or at >>>>>>>> least it did get updates. What hapens when you try to enter recovery >>>>>>>> mode? Are you absolutely sure your phone is bricked and it isn't just >>>>>>>> that voiceover isn't talking or the volume is down? I know these may >>>>>>>> sound like insulting questions but your post contains very little >>>>>>>> information and I'm just covering the bases. Maybe there was a >>>>>>>> previous post about this that i missed. If it is truly bricked and >>>>>>>> restore with iTunes or recovery mode with iTunes won't work, I suspect >>>>>>>> you will have to take it to Apple or at least call them. Are you >>>>>>>> talking about the latest iOS update when you speak of updating your >>>>>>>> firmware or is this something else? Now that you have a new thread and >>>>>>>> subject line, probably somebody who knows a lot more than I do will >>>>>>>> come to your rescue soon. I know it's really scary when something like >>>>>>>> this happens. I have never had a phone bricked but I have had one that >>>>>>>> was unresponsive for other reasons and it was a frightening few >>>>>>>> minutes! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Cheryl >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Go beyond the Christmas story this year; >>>>>>>> meet Immanuel (God with us), >>>>>>>> Jesus, the crucified Savior, >>>>>>>> Christ, the risen LORD!!! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Dec 11, 2014, at 9:12 AM, Jessica Moss <[email protected] >>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Ok, unfortunately haven't been keeping up with everybody's posts, but >>>>>>>>> how highly would you all reccomend I upgrade at this point? I >>>>>>>>> unfortunately think I may be forced to at this point, considering the >>>>>>>>> fact that I updated, or I probably should say, tried, to update the >>>>>>>>> firmware on my IPhone 5C this morning, and it's now bricked itself >>>>>>>>> and itunes won't even restore it even in recovery mode and I can't >>>>>>>>> take it to an Apple store right now to have it looked at. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Dec 11, 2014, at 8:33 AM, jeffrey greene <[email protected] >>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi Sean, Yes, its an app but not from the app store. I first learned >>>>>>>>>> about it from anandtech.com <http://anandtech.com/>. >>>>>>>>>> Regards, Jeff >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Dec 10, 2014, at 10:46 PM, Shawn Krasniuk <[email protected] >>>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi Jeff. Is this Trim an app? If so, and if it's an app from the >>>>>>>>>>> app store, maybe they haven't released an update that's Yosemite >>>>>>>>>>> compatible. This is just a guess. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Shawn >>>>>>>>>>> Sent From My White MacBook >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 10, 2014, at 2:13 PM, jeffrey greene <[email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi, I’ll probably give yosemite another try when we get to a more >>>>>>>>>>>> stable version. My biggest problem was in turning on trim for my >>>>>>>>>>>> ssd at which point voiceover just quit. I mean, no speech at all! >>>>>>>>>>>> Trim enhances performance quite a bit, and I’m surprised yosemite >>>>>>>>>>>> didn’t recognize I was using an ssd and just implement it >>>>>>>>>>>> automatically. >>>>>>>>>>>> Jeff >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 10, 2014, at 3:07 PM, Faisal ali <[email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>>>>>> The only issue with Yosemite I have is the keyboard. I’ve had >>>>>>>>>>>>> moments where the keyboard would stop working. I was unable to >>>>>>>>>>>>> enter any texts, close any apps or even click on files to open or >>>>>>>>>>>>> anything. None of the keystrokes worked as well and it was just a >>>>>>>>>>>>> very miserable experience overall. interestingly, the only thing >>>>>>>>>>>>> I was able to do while my keyboard was unresponsive is toggle >>>>>>>>>>>>> Quicknav. This was my only deal breaker and I downgraded back to >>>>>>>>>>>>> mavericks. However, when 10.10.1 came out, I once again installed >>>>>>>>>>>>> Yosemite to find my problem was still there, but weren’t as >>>>>>>>>>>>> frequent. Another lister suggested turning off my trackpad >>>>>>>>>>>>> commander which seems to fix it. This was very difficult for me >>>>>>>>>>>>> as I replied on the trackpad commander quite a bit but adjusting >>>>>>>>>>>>> to using the keyboard more exclusively. >>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess what I’m saying is, there are always work arounds as much >>>>>>>>>>>>> of an inconvenience they are. In my case, it was turning off the >>>>>>>>>>>>> track commander. I’m sincerely hoping this problem is resolved as >>>>>>>>>>>>> using the trackpad is a big deal to me, and one of the selling >>>>>>>>>>>>> points when converting to the mac. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 10, 2014, at 10:59 AM, Dionipher Presas Herrera >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> i do only have problems on viewing videos on youtube, it cuts on >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 2 seconds then continue. it only annoys me because i have to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> play backward again >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Il giorno 10/dic/2014, alle ore 05:09 PM, Cheryl Homiak >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> ha scritto: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can understand your frustration. I am using yosemite and love >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it! I really do suggest, without criticizing anybody else's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> decision, that people look for answers to any problems they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> encounter if they choose to upgrade and maybe give it a week >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> instead of one day. But I totally can understand a decision to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quickly go back to what was working for you. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheryl >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Go beyond the Christmas story this year; >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meet Immanuel (God with us), >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jesus, the crucified Savior, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christ, the risen LORD!!! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 10, 2014, at 9:22 AM, jeffrey greene >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi listers, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well the other day I was bored and decided to upgrade to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yosemite. What a mistake! I got yosemite downloaded and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> installed, then I enabled trim on my ssd with trim enabler, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and immediately lost voiceover. Even when voiceover was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> working I really didn’t like yosemite. Even on a simple thing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like adding files to iTunes or navigating emails in mail the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cursor kept jumping around! So, I booted into recovery mode >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and erased my hard drive and went back to mavericks. I believe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I’ll stick with mavericks for the foreseeable future! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jeff >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries >>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>. >>>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries >>>>>>>>>>>> <http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>. >>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries >>>>>>>>>>> <http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>. >>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected] >>>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >>>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries >>>>>>>>>> <http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>. >>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected] >>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries >>>>>>>>> <http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>. >>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Cheryl >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Go beyond the Christmas story this year; >>>>>>>> meet Immanuel (God with us), >>>>>>>> Jesus, the crucified Savior, >>>>>>>> Christ, the risen LORD!!! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>>>> an email to [email protected] >>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries >>>>>>>> <http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>. >>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>>> an email to [email protected] >>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries >>>>>>> <http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>. >>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>> an email to [email protected] >>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries >>>>>> <http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>>> email to [email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries >>>>> <http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>> email to [email protected] >>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>> To post to this group, send email to 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