Can I speak up here as well?

I beta tested iOS 10 right from the very beginning, developer beta 1. How it 
was, Apple Developer Relations contacted me over a bug report I sent two years 
ago. Yes, two years ago. It was in relation to Braille Screen Input and 
contracted Braille. I reported then that there was absolutely no typing 
feedback when switching to contracted Braille input. After assuring me that 
they were looking for ideas, they finally told me that character feedback was 
turned off in all cases, and it was released like that. I was disappointed, but 
thought “hey, at least I tried”. So you can imagine the shock I felt when 
receiving that. So thought “hey, let’s check this out and see what I think?” 
And wow, it was amazing to see they finally added typing feedback to contracted 
Braille input. Since I was generally happy with the implementation, I simply 
replied to the report and resolving the bug report. Future betas of iOS 10 I 
saw small, but significant, changes, which were for the better. I’m not going 
to say the changes here, since even the public beta testers never saw them. 
They got changed probably in developer beta 2 at least.

So please, give us credit where it’s due of course, and don’t blame it all on 
Apple. Thank you.


> On 16 Sep 2016, at 03:15, Ray Foret jr <rforet7...@comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> I may have only tested the public betas, but, I’m totally going to stand for 
> Chris and the other Devs here who were always one step ahead of me.  IF not 
> for their pioneering work on all this. what we have now might:  and indeed 
> would be, much much more seriously flawed.  I think we who tested the public 
> betas have something to say to this also, for you see, I was one of them and 
> continue to be.  Now, I want to say something else that I feel is in 
> connection with all this.  Some say we who test the public betas can in fact 
> discuss what we find in public before the final release.  You could not be 
> more in error!!!  Obviously, you don’t know what you are  talking about.  
> Have you bothered to read the terms of agreement that all beta testers, (dev 
> and public alike) must agree to?  No?  Well, permit me to summarize them for 
> you.  We cannot say a thing about what we are finding.  We’re strictly 
> forbidden to show you non testers in any way what it is we are working on.  
> If you think you have so much to say, you either pay the developer fee or 
> test the public beta.  Until then, shut up!!!!!  I’m coming out here in such 
> strong defense of dev and public beta testers because I have gone through 
> just about an entire summer of putting up with idiotic fools whoo have NO 
> respect for non disclosure agreements and the seriousness with which such 
> things MUST be taken.  True, not everyone on this list is like that:  in 
> fact, I suspect that most on this particular list understand my point of view 
> on this matter.  But on VORail, (yes I am being specific about the place 
> where most of this stupidity lives) it seemed to reign supreme.  I’m sure I 
> speak for Chris and the other devs and for the other public beta testers here 
> when I say that when we say we cannot discuss something, you’d damn well 
> better take us seriously because we damn well take Apple’s non disclosure 
> agreements very very seriously.  If stupid sighted people on podcasts can’t 
> be bother to take such things seriously and go  blabbing about what they 
> find, that’s their problem.  Also, frankly, it’s not much help to us if Apple 
> doesn’t enforce their own non disclosure agreements.  Well, let the rest blab 
> if they want to:  I, for my part, will NOT.  
> Sent from my Mac, The only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
> built-in
> 
> Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray
> Still a very happy Mac, Verizon Wireless iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!!!!!
> 
>> On Sep 15, 2016, at 8:26 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
>> <clgillan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Excuse me, Cheree.  that was profoundly disrespectful, not to mention 
>> downright insulting to us devs, me being one of them.  Let me tell you 
>> something.  We devs did! try getting on Apple about stuff like this.  I did 
>> so in iOS 9, and I even more so did in this iOS 10 update beta cycle.  Trust 
>> me.  I was on the 10 beta from June 30th, when it was announced at WWDC 
>> until now.  I've ever since had at least one of my devices on 10.
>>  
>> I've reported bug after bug after bug to them.  I've worked countless hours 
>> to the sweat of my brow! trying to explain these things to them, but no 
>> sollution was ever made.  So don't be putting the blame on us devs, OK?  
>> We've done our damdest! to make this new version of OSX, TVOS, Watch OS, and 
>> iOS as  wonderful as possible.  The thing is, once we make the bug reports 
>> through the bugreporter bug tracker, we really don't then have much of a say 
>> past that point.  If Apple fixes it, great, if not, well, we've done our 
>> parts by reporting it.
>>  
>> Now, if us devs just saw the bug and ignored it, then therefore it was 
>> released buggy, then, I'd totally give this message to you, but, hunttauhh.  
>> I'm not lettin' you have this.  I'm sorry.  Us devs deserve more credit, and 
>> respect!  We really, really really did try!
>>  
>> Can another person on this list who's a dev and paid the 99 for the iOS 10 
>> cycle please speak up and advocate for us all here as well?  This is just 
>> wrong!
>> ---
>> Christopher Gilland
>> JAWS Certified, 2016.
>> Training Instructor.
>>  
>> i...@gillandmarketing.com
>> Phone: (704) 256-8010.
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: Cheree Heppe
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 9:08 PM
>>> Subject: Re: IOS10 Mail app changes
>>> 
>>> You developers and designers, changers and alter era can flick yourselves 
>>> into you-know-where regarding this change to mail on iOS.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Sep 15, 2016, at 15:27, David Chittenden <dchitten...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Correct, the way messages are handled has changed. Visually, it now looks 
>>>> much more like mail on the mac. It also works more like macmail.
>>>> 
>>>> When in the main message list, individual messages are still handled the 
>>>> same as in iOS 9. Threads are different. If one double-taps on a thread to 
>>>> activate it, one goes into a browse thread view. In this view, 
>>>> single-finger vertical flick moves up and down through the messages. 
>>>> Single-finger horrizontal flicks read through the specific message. 
>>>> Double-tap on the delete button at the bottom of the screen deletes all 
>>>> messages in the thread. Three-finger horrizontal flick moves between 
>>>> threads, threads and individual messages which do not belong to threads, 
>>>> and individual messages. In other words, the same as single-finger 
>>>> horrizontal flick in the message list screen.
>>>> 
>>>> If one wishes to delete only some messages from a thread, the thread must 
>>>> be expanded. Whilst in the main message screen, single-finger vertical 
>>>> flick to expand thread and double-tap. Now, the thread is unpacked and all 
>>>> the messages in the thread are treated like non-thread messages. Now that 
>>>> I have become used to this new system, I really like it. It took me a few 
>>>> hours of frustration to become used to this new system.
>>>> 
>>>> I am hoping that, as Apple continues merging the behaviours of apps for 
>>>> iOS and Mac, that we will see a full Mac-based iPad. I love touch-screen 
>>>> and want my touch-screen Mac, or the equivalent.
>>>> 
>>>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>>>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>>>> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>> On 16/09/2016, at 10:09, Phil Halton <philh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> message threading seems to have changed substantially in IOS10. I can no 
>>>>> longer 3 finger flick from message to message in a thread, instead I have 
>>>>> to use the “pre and next” message buttons. Also, the list of messages in 
>>>>> a thread no longer appears, but instead I am thrown into the first 
>>>>> message in the thread and then have to navigate between messages using 
>>>>> the next and pre message buttons. What a screw up this is! is 3 finger 
>>>>> flicking from message to message gone in ios10?
>>>>> Also how about the thread message list? is that gone too? or are there 
>>>>> some settings that need tweaking?
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
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