I, on the other hand, love threaded mail, now that I have figured out how it 
works.

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
Sent from my iPhone

> On 17/09/2016, at 09:41, Donna Goodin <doniado...@me.com> wrote:
> 
> I'm liking IOS 10, as well, though I don't use threaded view in Mail.
> Cheers,
> Donna
>> On Sep 16, 2016, at 4:40 PM, Simon Fogarty <si...@blinky-net.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Personally I think this is probly one of the most stable IOS updates I have 
>> seen.
>>  
>> I haven’t found any of the issues with mail others are reporting.
>>  
>> Although I wasn’t able to move a couple of emails from one in box to another 
>> location in a second mail account, but hell it’s not a big issue,
>> Reporting the issues to apple goes along way to getting things corrected 
>> quickly and they do appreciate it.
>>  
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
>> Sent: Friday, 16 September 2016 11:35 PM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: IOS10 Mail app changes
>>  
>> You know what would be nice too, is if we were less anal about the public 
>> beta and discussed these major changes openly so people aren’t surprised.  
>> The Cheree’s of the world could elect not to update for example until a 
>> satisfactory alternative presents itself or not update at all putting the 
>> control in their hands instead of jumping in with out all the facts to make 
>> an informed decision.
>>  
>> It would also be nice if Apple could unbundle the security updates from the 
>> OS updates so again folks not wanting to update could apply security patches 
>> and stay safe with out introducing new features.  That might undo some of 
>> the apple advantage though but I’m definitely not against putting more 
>> choice in to the hands of the end user.
>>  
>> On Sep 15, 2016, at 11:13 PM, Mary Otten <motte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>  
>>  I think where Apple could do better would be in releasing some 
>> documentation regarding how voiceover users are supposed to deal with things 
>> that have substantially changed. I don't agree that things have to stay the 
>> same. And David's discussion of how to deal with the email was very good. I 
>> think that Apple should do that. I also think that Apple should update their 
>> documentation on commands, Bluetooth, braille display etc. One of the things 
>> about making a commitment to accessibility is to realize that for people who 
>> can. See, dealing with the changes to the interface may be a lot easier then 
>> for people who can't. That's why they need to employ people who get that, 
>> since your average designer doesn't. There are a lot of things that become 
>> immediately clear decided people because they can take in the entire 
>> interface at once and understand how to deal with it. That's not so easy if 
>> you can't do that.
>> Mary
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Sep 15, 2016, at 6:47 PM, Cheree Heppe <che...@dogsc4me.com> wrote:
>> 
>> That's nonsense.
>> I pay exactly the same amount for my Apple products as anyone else.
>> Apple claims universal design.
>> When design changes or functional alterations lose the way, that isn't about 
>> somebody pays more, that's about somebody misunderstanding universal design.
>> Luckily, not all sighted people think as you and some others have quoted, or 
>> the disabled and blind would still be sitting by coal scuttles and weaving 
>> baskets to the tune of you are a minority and don't count.
>> Drop the doctored rehab drivel and embrace universal design, not change for 
>> its own sake.
>>  
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Sep 15, 2016, at 18:40, michael babcock <michael.babcoc...@gmail.com> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Apple doesn’t make there products and services to work for everyone.
>> All this talking about leaving because you don’t like there updates, means 
>> nothing honestly.
>> Apple is doing there marketing the right way; they aren’t in the everyone 
>> business and the people who do like there products and services obviously 
>> pay more.
>> What is a Mac in most cases?
>> A PC…
>> A Personal Computer … 
>> But apple markets a Mac as a Mac and the people who want there changes will 
>> continue paying for them.
>> I’ve seen a few people say that they don’t like the way apple is doing there 
>> updates, and just had to say, so what…
>> Switch to android, back to a Nokia N82, (Side note do they still make that 
>> phone?), windows 10 touch phone, etc.
>> #choices.
>> And regarding the new mail problem, yes i complained to a friend that i 
>> couldn’t use preview in my mail and listen to part of the messages. He 
>> didn’t know how to get this working, however the podcast AppleVis released 
>> helped me a lot.
>> Thanks for reading my rant.
>> Best.
>> 
>> 
>> On Sep 15, 2016, at 6:30 PM, E.T. <ancient.ali...@icloud.com> wrote:
>>  
>>  Change is counterproductive? Perhaps to some who have a hard time adapting 
>> to change. But, at the end of each day, change is inevitable. If that is 
>> what you deem as force, well, the solution is, of course, jump ship. But, 
>> inevitable there as well. the cycle repeats itself.
>>  
>>  Release notes of sorts can be found at the wonderful resource called 
>> Applevis.
>>  
>>  How long have you been using OS X? I am still learning this system but it 
>> sure outruns Windows.
>>  
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>> Are We Alone in the Universe?
>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>  
>> On 9/15/2016 6:03 PM, Cheree Heppe wrote:
>> It seems counterproductive to force an up-to-date, streamlined
>> functionality, such as iOS to emulate an older, difficult, clumsy
>> system, namely OS.
>> If I'm not mistaken, there are more users of the iOS than the OS.  The
>> iOS represents a gateway experience that the public has readily adopted.
>> Among the public are large numbers of blind and disabled users.
>> If this new mail modality represents Apple's future for iOS, I am going
>> to be forced into seeking another phone and notebook alternative.  This
>> mail issue mushroomed, full-blown, from an update promised to improve,
>> to make simpler, to add features.
>> My experience has unfortunately invited an opposite opinion.  No release
>> notes guided usage; it was just changed, just done and just not helpful
>> or easily usable.
>> It feels as though there is a tug-of-war between some who learned on
>> that clumsy, multi-step, multi-keyboard usage system and those using the
>> iOs.  It is my opinion that the older, less easy OS needs to give place
>> to the more modern, more intuitive, more usable iOs and not the other
>> way round.
>> Each update adds extra complications to iOS in the name of improvements.
>> There are a cadre of blind and sighted who, like the old friends at
>> rehab, insist on speaking for us, the user/consumer blind, for our own good.
>> I recommend that all of us speak up in our own best interest or risk
>> losing something that could and did change the world for us.
>>  
>>  
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>  
>> On Sep 15, 2016, at 15:27, David Chittenden <dchitten...@gmail.com
>> <mailto:dchitten...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>  
>> Correct, the way messages are handled has changed. Visually, it now
>> looks much more like mail on the mac. It also works more like macmail.
>>  
>> When in the main message list, individual messages are still handled
>> the same as in iOS 9. Threads are different. If one double-taps on a
>> thread to activate it, one goes into a browse thread view. In this
>> view, single-finger vertical flick moves up and down through the
>> messages. Single-finger horrizontal flicks read through the specific
>> message. Double-tap on the delete button at the bottom of the screen
>> deletes all messages in the thread. Three-finger horrizontal flick
>> moves between threads, threads and individual messages which do not
>> belong to threads, and individual messages. In other words, the same
>> as single-finger horrizontal flick in the message list screen.
>>  
>> If one wishes to delete only some messages from a thread, the thread
>> must be expanded. Whilst in the main message screen, single-finger
>> vertical flick to expand thread and double-tap. Now, the thread is
>> unpacked and all the messages in the thread are treated like
>> non-thread messages. Now that I have become used to this new system, I
>> really like it. It took me a few hours of frustration to become used
>> to this new system.
>>  
>> I am hoping that, as Apple continues merging the behaviours of apps
>> for iOS and Mac, that we will see a full Mac-based iPad. I love
>> touch-screen and want my touch-screen Mac, or the equivalent.
>>  
>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com<mailto:dchitten...@gmail.com>
>> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>  
>> On 16/09/2016, at 10:09, Phil Halton <philh...@gmail.com
>> <mailto:philh...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>  
>> message threading seems to have changed substantially in IOS10. I can
>> no longer 3 finger flick from message to message in a thread, instead
>> I have to use the “pre and next” message buttons. Also, the list of
>> messages in a thread no longer appears, but instead I am thrown into
>> the first message in the thread and then have to navigate between
>> messages using the next and pre message buttons. What a screw up this
>> is! is 3 finger flicking from message to message gone in ios10?
>> Also how about the thread message list? is that gone too? or are
>> there some settings that need tweaking?
>>  
>>  
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