Not to mention the cost of the technology. The money I’ve spent & keep on spending on it would cover a mortgage payments for a modest house. So yes, I’m fed up I can’t use the Greek voice after 4 years of reporting the bug. & yes, I’ve paid for Windows10 so that I can have a Greek voice that reads text correctly in case Apple’s decided Greek speakers outside Greece don’t have to be supported. I’m privileged though to have work & income but if I hadn’t? God help me then.
Andrew > On 10 Apr 2020, at 19:01, Karen Lewellen <[email protected]> wrote: > > Sometimes when I am having a discussion with an individual who uses the > make a single AP work in a single way dictionary I ask them a question. > Do you often change your eyes or hands > or ears each time you visit the store instead of the bank, instead of the > movies? > When the answer is of course no, I ask then why would you expect someone > who reads or writes or interacts differently to change the equal of their > body in such a fashion? > Its unrealistic, impractical, and counterproductive to the concept of > inclusion. Of course you should be able to choose the operating system you > wish and get the job done. > Kare > > > > On Fri, 10 Apr 2020, joseph hodge wrote: > >> I find that I use screen readers and treat them as they are all tools in the >> toolbox the more I know the better off I’ll be. However this being said it’s >> so maddening win one aspect to an application or website just doesn’t work >> on one operating system and then I throw it on something else it doesn’t >> work and then I go to the third option and it works fine. I was playing with >> an app yesterday that works the best on Chromebook who would’ve guessed? It >> just sucks that I have to pick and choose the operating systems to get the >> best results for that particular application why can’t I just use the >> application the way I like on any operating system I like? >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Apr 9, 2020, at 10:17 PM, Karen Lewellen <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Jason, >>> You raise an issue that frankly baffles me. >>> why is it not possible for an individual to choose a single operating >>> system and have their needs met from an accessibility standpoint? >>> why is it an acceptable situation to need multiple devices in various >>> systems to complete tasks. >>> It certainly was not always the case. >>> I can respect having a laptop or desktop and also a phone or tablet, but >>> those should work in harmony with each other if that makes sense. and the >>> accessibility should be consistent on those devices regardless of program >>> being used. >>> I have no idea where the concept of creating a single program to manage a >>> single task then incorporating accessibility in came from, perhaps the >>> windows arena. >>> Still as someone pointed out earlier in this thread Google believes that >>> controlling punctuation should not be something a user can do on the >>> Android platform. Yet text to speech is not a screen reader, with google >>> failing to understand this a major concern. >>> as you note, most of the individuals meeting with accessibility will not >>> have the technological ability to figure things out..so will simply >>> believe access is an impossibility in general. >>> However such complacency about what access is expected to do in part >>> started with the population benefiting from that access, not demanding that >>> a screen reader tool work uniformly across the board much the way in >>> theory the physical functions the adaptive tool enhances work in the human >>> body. >>> Kare >>> Who frankly wonders on average how many machines an individual using >>> adaptive technology owns? >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Thu, 9 Apr 2020, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries wrote: >>>> >>>> I haven’t updated to iOS 13.4.1 yet, but I plan to do it soon. Based on >>>> what I’ve read, I don’t expect any changes that will affect me or other >>>> VoiceOver users significantly. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Every modern operating system has accessibility bugs, unfortunately. >>>> That’s why I sometimes have to switch operating systems just to get work >>>> done. For example, I’ve switched from Windows to Mac to complete a task in >>>> the last week or two due to accessibility issues on the Windows side. >>>> Fortunately, the laptop with Windows installed and the MacBook Pro are on >>>> the same desk, so it’s really easy to move from one to the other. Of >>>> course, I really shouldn’t have to move between two computers just to do >>>> my work properly, but that’s how it is at the moment. This isn’t the place >>>> to discuss application and screen reader crashes on Windows, or >>>> accessibility regressions there either, or having to switch between >>>> Windows screen readers to work around bugs. In my experience, the Mac has >>>> had its share of accessibility problems as well, and I’ve been using it >>>> since 2014. Some applications are more accessible under Windows than under >>>> Mac OS, and vice versa. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I have Windows 10, Mac OS, Linux and iOS here, so I believe I can make >>>> fair comparisons. As it stands, I think the practical advice is to have >>>> multiple operating systems available and to switch between them, as the >>>> task requires, to work around accessibility problems. I should be able to >>>> choose two operating systems – one for a laptop/desktop and the other for >>>> mobile, and use those exclusively, but I don’t envisage that being >>>> effective from an accessibility perspective for me within the short term >>>> or even the medium term. It just isn’t workable, given the quality >>>> problems across multiple platforms. iOS is adequate for my mobile needs, >>>> but the desktop/laptop situation is more complex – and that’s where I’m >>>> doing most of the work, and therefore where I notice the problems more. >>>> Everyone’s situation is different, of course, and, as usual, the people >>>> with less technical knowledge will be >>>> >>>> The most disadvantaged when they run into accessibility problems – on >>>> whichever platform they’re using. It’s the same everywhere. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> From: Macvisionaries <[email protected]> on behalf of joseph >>>> hodge >>>> >>>> <[email protected]> >>>> Reply-To: Macvisionaries <[email protected]> >>>> Date: Thursday, April 9, 2020 at 16:38 >>>> To: Macvisionaries <[email protected]> >>>> Subject: Re: Ios 13.4.1 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> You are free to go to a OS and device that meats your needs then. You gave >>>> no reasoning to why your fed up or why Apple doesn’t care. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I find bugs the new text editing boxes where there isn’t edit boxes for >>>> one but every OS has bugs we have to deal with. Android for one still >>>> can’t read all punctuation which should be on every screen reader as an >>>> option. I left Apple for a bit and came back some times we have to >>>> evaluate things and see how they are. Hope you find what your looking for. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Joe >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Apr 9, 2020, at 4:31 PM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries >>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> What specifically has given you the impression that Apple is not focusing >>>> on accessibility? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Later... >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Tim Kilburn >>>> >>>> Jamf Certified Tech >>>> >>>> Apple Teacher >>>> >>>> (with Swift Playgrounds Recognition) >>>> >>>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Apr 9, 2020, at 14:29, 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries >>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I’m getting fed up with Apple non-responsiveness to accessibility issues & >>>> have begun the process of going back to Windows. & Jaws. I’m so >>>> disappointed. >>>> >>>> >>>> On 8 Apr 2020, at 08:16, Anders Holmberg <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi! >>>> I just updated to iOS 13.4.1. >>>> SO far i haven’t notice any bugfixes for Vo. >>>> /A >>>> >>>> -- >>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>>> Visionaries list. >>>> >>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the >>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>>> >>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. 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You can reach mark >>>> at: [email protected] and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at >>>> [email protected] >>>> >>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>> --- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>> email to [email protected]. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/01C90F74-769D-40CA-8DCC-D57EACC0988E%40jasonjgw.net. >> >> -- >> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >> Visionaries list. >> >> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if >> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or >> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >> >> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: >> [email protected] and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at >> [email protected] >> >> The archives for this list can be searched at: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/671AF32A-1F85-4A4A-9681-268AB0511EC7%40gmail.com. >> -- The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. 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