Just wanted to agree with everything said here. Well stated. Olivia On Apr 8, 2010, at 7:27 AM, Nicolai Svendsen wrote:
> Hi, > > VoiceOver cannot detect languages because these have not been implemented. > Furthermore, VoiceOver has only been localized since the release of Snow > Leopard. VoiceOver has only been around since 2004, and that is very > important to keep in mind. Despite that, though, In my opinion it surpasses > Windows screen access in most areas. Flash isn't very important to me, since > you hardly got any feedback even if you could see the controls. Saying that, > the verbosity does provide a huge amount of configuration, actually. All > you'd need, and I'm sure more is going to be added. In Mac, you don't need > silly tooltips to be spoken when going through elements. Or help balloons. > VoiceOver, or just APple's accessibility policy is different in that, if you > want information, you have to look for it without the screen reader doing any > handholding. This is why I think that the current level of verbosity > configuration is more than sufficient. > > When it comes to the selection of text on websites, it works the same way as > it would if it was loaded into a virtual buffer, which is a downside if you > use a Windows screen reader, in that it has to load it into the buffer after > the initial page has been loaded. This takes longer time than it should. On > some pages, when using the Mac, selecting text works amazingly well, and on > some it does not. I am sure that Apple will address this, as it is an > important feature to perfect. > > Keyboard shortcuts can already be assigned to all menu items within any > selected application, as long as the menu title is written properly and as > long as the item to which you wish to attach a hockey to is in a menu. > > It is important to understand that any accessibility delivered to VoiceOver > users depends on Apple's framework, which is good in that in a lot of cases, > the developer is not always aware of the accessibility of their application. > The Cocoa framework ensures that a lot of applications work out of the box, > whereas WIndows screen readers depend mainly on scripts. Also, that causes > the scripts to break if a change is made to the user interface. The inability > to access Flash is mainly because Adobe did not want to provide accessibility > until now, and even then, it's supposedly going to take eighteen months, in > which case HTML5 has probably kicked out Flash. And, it'll already work with > VoiceOver. > > Regards, > Nic > > Skype: Kvalme > MSN Messenger: [email protected] > AIM: cincinster > yahoo Messenger: cin368 > Facebook Profile > My Twitter > > On Apr 8, 2010, at 1:05 AM, William Windels wrote: > >> Hello all, >> I agree that Apple is doing great efforts to make their products accessible >> and I love the mac for most of my tasks but the mac and the corresponding os >> are not the only ones on the market... >> They do good things like the integration of their screenreader in all of >> their products and because of that , most of the tasks on the mac are logic. >> It gives also a good impulse to the computermarket for blind people. >> I mean e.g. the gestures on the trackpad of a macbook. This is something new >> and very interesting feature that they have created. >> Also a great advantage of apple and their accessibility-policy is the >> feature that mac-users can give their feedback, questions and comments to a >> special address. >> I have the experience that they listen to us but of course , it takes some >> time. >> >> but, and this is perhaps the other side of implementing accessibility >> without paying more, >> the mac is missing some features that are available on a winds pc in >> combination with most of the screenreaders. >> >> Here , I have a list of things that I miss on a mac: >> >> 1- working with flash on websites; >> 2- automatic language detection on webpages (like on the iphone); >> 3- configurable representation of controls on the brailledisplay (this is >> also good for people that have a little braille display); >> 4- creation of a verbosity level where you can define which messages should >> be spoken and/or which messages should be shown on the braille display; >> 5- setting webspots in voiceover for whole domains (e.g. www.google.be) in >> stead of the current viewed webpage (Window-eyes can handle this); >> 6- dragging and dropping with the keyboard so that we can also cut elements >> in the finder (and actions in other programs) >> This is a possibility in voiceover to do that but I am not shore if it is >> working and it don't give the same result. >> 7- Selecting tekst in a browser without complex commando instructions; >> >> And then also 1 feature about the os: >> the system of assigning hockeys for menu-items in the system-prefferences : >> tab =keyboard , hotkeys. This system is not working all the time, not all >> keys are aloud like function keys and services can't have a hockey in snow >> leopard. >> >> I would ask to everybody here to send accessibility one or more of this >> things that you find interesting or necessary. >> Or you can give also other suggestions of course ;) >> >> If you do so, pls write it in your own words and not just copy pasting. >> Otherwise , they will think that's something like spamming and perhaps they >> won't take it serious... >> >> If you have a suggestion/comment to me, pls mail me private: >> [email protected] >> >> thanx in advance, >> best regards, >> William >> Op 7-apr-2010, om 23:01 heeft Ricardo Walker het volgende geschreven: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Lol. The Jaws example was just that. An example. You can insert whatever >>> screenreader into the blank you wish. :) >>> On Apr 7, 2010, at 4:43 PM, Nicole Hutchins wrote: >>> >>>> I have to somewhat agree with you. >>>> I only disagree where Jaws is related since I'm an ex user of the product >>>> and I can speak from experience that there are just too many things I >>>> couldn't do with Jaws that I can do with Apple's screen reader. But yes, >>>> if something better came along, I'd definitely be willing to explore my >>>> options there. >>>> >>>> Nicole >>>> On Apr 7, 2010, at 4:22 PM, Ricardo Walker wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> I agree entirely. I think Apple has done great things regarding >>>>> accessibility but, when you pledge lifetime loyalty to a company I think >>>>> you are doing yourself a disservice. There will come a time where a >>>>> company will just do something that will make the use of their product >>>>> less justifiable or, something better will just come a long. If you just >>>>> stick with them because of their name they won't work as hard for you. >>>>> For example, If HP said all there notebooks would come with a >>>>> screenreader like Jaws or windows eyes, and you get upgrades for the life >>>>> of your PC, I think most sensible blind people would have to at least >>>>> explore the option. If you like something buy all means it is your right >>>>> to scream it from the mountain tops but, it can sometimes work against >>>>> you as far as credibility. If I hear someone say I buy a certain brand >>>>> no matter what, I instantly devalue there opinion on said product or >>>>> brand. >>>>> On Apr 7, 2010, at 3:45 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> For example, none of apple's computers these days come with BluRay. I >>>>>> don't need BluRay technology at this point so don't care, but everyone >>>>>> else is making computers that have it. We can go on and on about things >>>>>> that Apple doesn't give to their users. As of now, their products work >>>>>> really great for me and I love them. But there is no reason for me not >>>>>> to switch to something else in the future if I like it better, or is >>>>>> more efficient. >>>>>> On Apr 7, 2010, at 2:43 PM, Olivia Norman wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> LOL! I do kind of worship apple, but I have a hard time wondering what >>>>>>> products could be better than apple's for a variety of reasons, ease of >>>>>>> use, accessibility, design, etc. I could go on, but will refrain! >>>>>>> Olivia >>>>>>> On Apr 7, 2010, at 2:30 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The thing is that some people find it cool to show that they are using >>>>>>>> an Iphone, a BlackBerry or whatever. Some people just don't care. I >>>>>>>> personally use Apple stuff all day because they help me to be >>>>>>>> productive and they do everything I want them to do. But it has >>>>>>>> already been mentioned before on this list that Apple is doing things >>>>>>>> that are not all that good, particularly regarding patents. We can't >>>>>>>> forget that accessibility should be a right for us, and not something >>>>>>>> that we should be surprised to find right out of the box. Off course >>>>>>>> it's great that Apple decided to implement VO on all their devices, >>>>>>>> but honestly if something that I consider better comes out, I will >>>>>>>> consider switching. I will not stick to Apple just because it's Apple. >>>>>>>> It just doesn't make any sense to me to warship a company like that. >>>>>>>> On Apr 6, 2010, at 3:24 PM, Bryan Smart wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Yeh, but if they're using peoples' e-mail to advertise, they should >>>>>>>>> be paying for that privledge. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> What-ever. No one there cares what I think about stuff like this, >>>>>>>>> anyway. *smile* I have seen Blackberrys do this, and I think that it >>>>>>>>> is just as lame. If I'm sending e-mail from a free mail account, then >>>>>>>>> they can advertise in my mail, since they're providing the mail free >>>>>>>>> as an ad supported service. I suppose I just think that Apple stuff >>>>>>>>> should be a little more classy than that. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Bryan >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: [email protected] >>>>>>>>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Olivia Norman >>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 8:56 AM >>>>>>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>>>>>> Subject: [macvoiceover] Re: Apple Announces iPhone OS 4.0 Event for >>>>>>>>> 08/April/2010-- The Mac-cessibility Network - News [Lioncourt.com] >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Well. Cell companies do it, too. They'll say sent from my verizon >>>>>>>>> wireless blackberry, or sent from blackberry by AT&T. Marketing, I >>>>>>>>> guess. I kind of like the word to know I use apple products, so it's >>>>>>>>> Alright with me :) Sent from the future >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Apr 6, 2010, at 8:52 AM, Bryan Smart wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Coincidentally, why do iPhones and iPads always throw that "Sent >>>>>>>>>> from my iPhone/iPad" remark in there? I could write "Sent from my >>>>>>>>>> Nokia E71", or "Sent from my MacBook Pro"., but who cares what >>>>>>>>>> device I'm reading mail with? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I think its shameless and very noobish for Apple to put that in >>>>>>>>>> there by default. Be prepared to see posts all the time with "Sent >>>>>>>>>> from my iPad". I think that it will soon become a kind of kick me >>>>>>>>>> sign. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Bryan >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sent from my MacBook, with Microsoft Outlook, over Charter Internet. >>>>>>>>>> lol >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: [email protected] >>>>>>>>>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Olivia Norman >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 4:39 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>>>>>>> Subject: [macvoiceover] Re: [macvoiceover] Apple Announces iPhone OS >>>>>>>>>> 4.0 Event for 08/April/2010-- The Mac-cessibility Network - News >>>>>>>>>> [Lioncourt.com] >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Another piece of technology I. Will want! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Apr 5, 2010, at 3:50 PM, Russell Solowoniuk <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> <http://www.lioncourt.com/2010/04/05/apple-announces-iphone-os-4-0-eve >>>>>>>>>> nt-for-08april2010/> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.lioncourt.com/2010/04/05/apple-announces-iphone-os-4-0-even >>>>>>>>>> t-for-08april2010/ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Click on the link below to go to our homepage. >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.icanworkthisthing.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Manage your subscription by using the web interface on the link >>>>>>>>>>> below. >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Users can subscribe to this list by sending email to >>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>> with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by logging into the Web >>>>>>>>>>> interface at http://www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> "Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower", Steve Jobs >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Click on the link below to go to our homepage. >>>>>>>>>> http://www.icanworkthisthing.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Manage your subscription by using the web interface on the link >>>>>>>>>> below. >>>>>>>>>> http://www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Users can subscribe to this list by sending email to >>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>> with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by logging into the Web >>>>>>>>>> interface at http://www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Click on the link below to go to our homepage. >>>>>>>>>> http://www.icanworkthisthing.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Manage your subscription by using the web interface on the link >>>>>>>>>> below. >>>>>>>>>> http://www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Users can subscribe to this list by sending email to >>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>> with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by logging into the Web >>>>>>>>>> interface at http://www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Click on the link below to go to our homepage. >>>>>>>>> http://www.icanworkthisthing.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Manage your subscription by using the web interface on the link below. >>>>>>>>> http://www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Users can subscribe to this list by sending email to >>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>> with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by logging into the Web >>>>>>>>> interface at http://www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower", Steve Jobs >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Click on the link below to go to our homepage. >>>>>>>> http://www.icanworkthisthing.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Manage your subscription by using the web interface 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>>>>>> http://www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >>>>>> >>>>>> Users can subscribe to this list by sending email to >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by logging into the Web >>>>>> interface at http://www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >>>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Click on the link below to go to our homepage. >>>>> http://www.icanworkthisthing.com >>>>> >>>>> Manage your subscription by using the web interface on the link below. >>>>> http://www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >>>>> >>>>> Users can subscribe to this list by sending email to >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by logging into the Web >>>>> interface at http://www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >>>>> >>> >>>> >>>> Click on the link below to go to our homepage. >>>> http://www.icanworkthisthing.com >>>> >>>> Manage your subscription by using the web interface on the link below. >>>> http://www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >>>> >>>> Users can 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