Hi, I guess you can use that too. I've always found the audio files and the text, but I just always forget about that. ANother useful thing.
Regards, Nic Skype: Kvalme MSN Messenger: [email protected] AIM: cincinster yahoo Messenger: cin368 Facebook Profile My Twitter On Apr 8, 2010, at 6:07 PM, Esther wrote: > Hi Nic and William, > > For hot key assignments of service menu items, I use VO-Shift-C to copy the > last phrase to pasteboard, then I usually paste to TextEdit to check over the > command. You can paste directly to the keyboard assignment, too, but I > usually have to backspace/delete the space after the pasted phrase, so I > generally check this in TextEdit first anyway. Also, I've since learned that > some problematic combinations, like the ellipsis at the end of some menu > commands, can be typed with Command+Semi-colon (on an English input keyboard, > at least). > > As for reserving key combinations such as the F-keys with Command, Control, > and Option combinations, I think that you can override this and make > assignments through third party tools like Spark, but it's probably not a > good idea. You potentially get conflicting key definitions. I suspect these > are being reserved for development of future VoiceOver key definition > features. > > Interesting discussion, and I also hope that we'll see more development of > multi-lingual features for the Mac. > > HTH > > Cheers, > > Esther > > P.S. I've snipped off the parts of the discussion before William's initial > post of VoiceOver features he'd like to see. > > On 8 Apr 2010, at 05:17, Nicolai Svendsen wrote: > >> Hi >> >> Yes, it exists on the phone, but VoiceOver on the Mac does not have >> multilingual speech as of yet, at least. >> >> No, Mac OS prior to X had Outspoken, a third-party screen reader. VoiceOver >> was introduced in 2004 with the release of 10.4 Tiger. >> >> As for hot keys, you can easily have VoiceOver spell it out for you. If I >> had a braille display, I'd probably find a way of fixing that problem you >> are having. And, if I can't find it anywhere, at least I can suggest this >> too. But until then, I can't provide any educated guesses. I think a safe >> assumption, though, is that menu items, if they are two words or more, are >> always capitalized. E.G. Skype's Hang Up. H and U are both capitalized. >> Hotkeys can also be assigned to the control key, command and option. Not >> shift, of course, as this is the key for capitalizing a character, unless it >> is used with conjunction of other keys. The Mac provides function keys which >> can perform hardware or software keys. You may want to go to System >> Preferences>Keyboard>Keyboard tab, then select for Mac to use all F1, F2, >> etc as >> >> The verbosity features are a recent addition. Or, at least, the detailed >> verbosity features, including hints, how to speak items such as buttons, >> checkboxes, and so-on, not to mention counting items in lists, on the dock >> and elsewhere. It is a good idea, however, to suggest multiple >> configurations for both braille verbosity and speech if it is currently >> nowhere to be found. >> >> Regards, >> Nic >> >> On Apr 8, 2010, at 3:44 PM, William Windels wrote: >> >>> Hi Nicolai, >>> >>> What you wrote about the languages, the automatic language detection on >>> websites, is already available on the iphone and this works also >>> wit voice-over I think. >>> >>> I tought that voiceover was already implemented since version 9 of macos. >>> But yes, the current version of voiceover is 3.0 and the >>> windows-screenreaders have a version number 9 or higher. >>> >>> About the hotkeys for menus, you need to type the exact, case sensitive, >>> menu-item. >>> This is not that easy since menu-items are mostly underlined with dots 7 >>> and8 while reading. >>> Because of that, you can't see which letter is capital or not. >>> >>> Also, dots 7 and 8 can be used in editors to mark if a text is e.g. bold, >>> italic,undelined... >>> This is not possible when text is always underlined while reading by the >>> voice. >>> >>> Some keys are also not allowed for assigning hotkeys to menu-items. >>> e.g. the f-keys im combination of ctrl, shift, commandm option. >>> Except the vo-keys, there are not that much f-keys used by the system in >>> combination with one of this 4 keys. >>> I am not shore about that but it's my experience. >>> >>> about the verbosity : >>> In my opinion, it doesn't make sence to have all things that are spoken are >>> also on the braille display¸. >>> e.g.: it's sometimes interesting to hear the tooltip of a specific element >>> on a website but it's not necessary to see this info on the braille >>> display'. >>> also about the message bussy: why should i see this in the display ¸and >>> , at the same time missiong the information on the screen. >>> >>> this are some suggestions... >>> >>> thanx allot for your answer >>> >>> best regards, >>> william >>> Op 8-apr-2010, om 13:27 heeft Nicolai Svendsen het volgende geschreven: >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> VoiceOver cannot detect languages because these have not been implemented. >>>> Furthermore, VoiceOver has only been localized since the release of Snow >>>> Leopard. VoiceOver has only been around since 2004, and that is very >>>> important to keep in mind. Despite that, though, In my opinion it >>>> surpasses Windows screen access in most areas. Flash isn't very important >>>> to me, since you hardly got any feedback even if you could see the >>>> controls. Saying that, the verbosity does provide a huge amount of >>>> configuration, actually. All you'd need, and I'm sure more is going to be >>>> added. In Mac, you don't need silly tooltips to be spoken when going >>>> through elements. Or help balloons. VoiceOver, or just APple's >>>> accessibility policy is different in that, if you want information, you >>>> have to look for it without the screen reader doing any handholding. This >>>> is why I think that the current level of verbosity configuration is more >>>> than sufficient. >>>> >>>> When it comes to the selection of text on websites, it works the same way >>>> as it would if it was loaded into a virtual buffer, which is a downside if >>>> you use a Windows screen reader, in that it has to load it into the buffer >>>> after the initial page has been loaded. This takes longer time than it >>>> should. On some pages, when using the Mac, selecting text works amazingly >>>> well, and on some it does not. I am sure that Apple will address this, as >>>> it is an important feature to perfect. >>>> >>>> Keyboard shortcuts can already be assigned to all menu items within any >>>> selected application, as long as the menu title is written properly and as >>>> long as the item to which you wish to attach a hockey to is in a menu. >>>> >>>> It is important to understand that any accessibility delivered to >>>> VoiceOver users depends on Apple's framework, which is good in that in a >>>> lot of cases, the developer is not always aware of the accessibility of >>>> their application. The Cocoa framework ensures that a lot of applications >>>> work out of the box, whereas WIndows screen readers depend mainly on >>>> scripts. Also, that causes the scripts to break if a change is made to the >>>> user interface. The inability to access Flash is mainly because Adobe did >>>> not want to provide accessibility until now, and even then, it's >>>> supposedly going to take eighteen months, in which case HTML5 has probably >>>> kicked out Flash. And, it'll already work with VoiceOver. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Nic >>>> >>>> Skype: Kvalme >>>> MSN Messenger: [email protected] >>>> AIM: cincinster >>>> yahoo Messenger: cin368 >>>> Facebook Profile >>>> My Twitter >>>> >>>> On Apr 8, 2010, at 1:05 AM, William Windels wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello all, >>>>> I agree that Apple is doing great efforts to make their products >>>>> accessible and I love the mac for most of my tasks but the mac and the >>>>> corresponding os are not the only ones on the market... >>>>> They do good things like the integration of their screenreader in all of >>>>> their products and because of that , most of the tasks on the mac are >>>>> logic. >>>>> It gives also a good impulse to the computermarket for blind people. >>>>> I mean e.g. the gestures on the trackpad of a macbook. This is something >>>>> new and very interesting feature that they have created. >>>>> Also a great advantage of apple and their accessibility-policy is the >>>>> feature that mac-users can give their feedback, questions and comments to >>>>> a special address. >>>>> I have the experience that they listen to us but of course , it takes >>>>> some time. >>>>> >>>>> but, and this is perhaps the other side of implementing accessibility >>>>> without paying more, >>>>> the mac is missing some features that are available on a winds pc in >>>>> combination with most of the screenreaders. >>>>> >>>>> Here , I have a list of things that I miss on a mac: >>>>> >>>>> 1- working with flash on websites; >>>>> 2- automatic language detection on webpages (like on the iphone); >>>>> 3- configurable representation of controls on the brailledisplay (this is >>>>> also good for people that have a little braille display); >>>>> 4- creation of a verbosity level where you can define which messages >>>>> should be spoken and/or which messages should be shown on the braille >>>>> display; >>>>> 5- setting webspots in voiceover for whole domains (e.g. www.google.be) >>>>> in stead of the current viewed webpage (Window-eyes can handle this); >>>>> 6- dragging and dropping with the keyboard so that we can also cut >>>>> elements in the finder (and actions in other programs) >>>>> This is a possibility in voiceover to do that but I am not shore if it is >>>>> working and it don't give the same result. >>>>> 7- Selecting tekst in a browser without complex commando instructions; >>>>> >>>>> And then also 1 feature about the os: >>>>> the system of assigning hockeys for menu-items in the system-prefferences >>>>> : tab =keyboard , hotkeys. This system is not working all the time, not >>>>> all keys are aloud like function keys and services can't have a hockey in >>>>> snow leopard. >>>>> >>>>> I would ask to everybody here to send accessibility one or more of this >>>>> things that you find interesting or necessary. >>>>> Or you can give also other suggestions of course ;) >>>>> >>>>> If you do so, pls write it in your own words and not just copy pasting. >>>>> Otherwise , they will think that's something like spamming and perhaps >>>>> they won't take it serious... >>>>> >>>>> If you have a suggestion/comment to me, pls mail me private: >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> >>>>> thanx in advance, >>>>> best regards, >>>>> William > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. 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