Hi, Still, regardless, I can imagine that it'd be easier to explore the screen. if you frequently visit a particular webpage, you might have the table containing news categories on the left-hand side, and when tapping it, contents might appear in the center or to the right making navigation very swift.
I've always loved the exploration part of a touchscreen, and I never swipe anymore. This is why it'd probably be a huge benefit for me to get one because of the size. Exploring, particularly with the iPhone on websites is not the same. Regards, Nic Mobile Me: [email protected] Skype: Kvalme MSN Messenger: [email protected] AIM: cincinster yahoo Messenger: cin368 Facebook Profile My Twitter On May 5, 2010, at 9:58 PM, Bryan Smart wrote: > Olivia, I like the concept of the four finger swipe for navigating between > sections, but it seems that only a few apps support this. It works on the > home screen. It works in the iWork apps. It works in Safari. However, lots of > iPad apps build their interfaces out of just large web browser views. In > these views, there is no concept of sections. You just have a huge scrolling > page with lots of links. Sometimes, they'll use headings, and I can use the > rotor and up/down swipe to navigate between sections. Quite often, though, > they don't, and, together with the problem of swiping not continuing from > where I last touched, there is a massive amount of swiping required to get > around the screen. Lots of swiping isn't a problem on the iPhone and Touch, > as those are smaller screens that hold less data at once, so there isn't much > on any single screen to swipe through. The iPad screens are very full, though. > > Bryan > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of olivia norman > Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2010 5:53 AM > To: list voiceover > Subject: Re: Returning my iPad > > It's always interesting to get another prospective. I do have a case for my > iPad, so don't have to hold it up at all which helps. Personally, I love the > device, but as with anything, people have differing opinions and I actually > found Brian's experiences interesting and valuable to read. > I find that the four finger flick gesture really helps while moving around > most iPad screens, especially in applications such as mail and safari, this > gesture helps avoid swiping with one finger constantly. I also find that > applications such as iBooks and the iWork applications are wonderful > additions to this device, and afford the user functionality ad productivity > you just don't find on the iPhone. > In my way of thinking, these are two different kinds of devices, which > perform different functions and I use and think of them for completely > different things in my life. > There's also the issue with the iPhone's battery life. I can't for instance, > watch a movie or stream a youtube video for any length of time with out > experiencing significant battery drain. On my iPad, I am able to watch > videos for hours, no problem. > The case is a great, and IMO, needed, extra with the iPad for both blid and > sighted users. It allows for more comfortable use of the iPad and means that > you don't have to hold it or risk it falling. You can purchase it from apple > for about $39.99. > I am sorry to hear the iPad didn't work for you, Brian, and your experience > just shows that not every piece of technology works well for every user. > Thank you for posting this to the list! Have a great day! :) Olivia On May > 5, 2010, at 4:52 AM, Nicolai Svendsen wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> He was saying it was uncomfortable to move around on the larger screen. If >> he has the case and puts it on a table, I'd imagine this would be a lot >> easier. At least, it sure would for me and would give me a better overview >> than having it in my lap, for example. Or, the frequent complaint that is >> often heard is that holding it up is also uncomfortable, which makes sense >> too. >> >> Regards, >> Nic >> Mobile Me: [email protected] >> Skype: Kvalme >> MSN Messenger: [email protected] >> AIM: cincinster >> yahoo Messenger: cin368 >> Facebook Profile >> My Twitter >> >> On May 5, 2010, at 10:49 AM, Ben Mustill-Rose wrote: >> >>> What would the case solve though? >>> >>> I also have the vo freezing problem on my touch; I expected it to be >>> at least partly fixed on the ipad. >>> >>> On 05/05/2010, Nicolai Svendsen <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> Just one question. >>>> >>>> Why not get the iPad case and put it in there? That just seems like >>>> a logical solution to your dilemma. If you haven't sold it yet, give it >>>> here. >>>> lol >>>> >>>> Really, I've always thought the iPhone was mainly for a consumer. >>>> You can write long documents on it, but it is far from comfortable >>>> and very efficient. Well, you can write really quickly on that >>>> device, but really, it might get tiresome after a while. We will >>>> have Bluetooth keyboard support, though, so that is very exciting. >>>> >>>> I imagine the screen to be exactly the opposite of what you are saying. >>>> Sorry to disagree. I think the larger screen would aid me a great >>>> deal, and the split-screen is just a nifty feature to me. I won't >>>> get an iPad, though, and I have a lot of reasons for that. I'll try >>>> out an iPad at the end of May when they ship internationally, but I'm not >>>> going to be that excited. >>>> >>>> First, what can the iPad do that my iPhone cannot? iWork? Perhaps. >>>> But right now, I don't see myself using an iPad. Technically, the >>>> space I would take up if I hook up a bluetooth keyboard to the iPad >>>> is probably just as much as my Macbook, if a little bit less. The >>>> Macbook is faster, and I need the superior speed. I need to be able >>>> to type blazingly fast, and though I could do that with the iPad >>>> keyboard dock or bluetooth keyboards, I still don't want to carry >>>> those accessories around with me. Of course, that doesn't mean I can't >>>> become very efficient with the on-screen keyboard on the device. >>>> >>>> Secondly, yes, the glare from the iPad's LCD is hard on the eyes for >>>> a few hours. Having to read on the iPad or iPhone for long periods >>>> of time is a pain, and that is really only because it is bright. IF >>>> it was like the Kindle where you still need a lamp to read, great. >>>> >>>> Third, I just don't think the iPad is right for me. I want something >>>> small like my iPhone that can do all these things already, and I >>>> just can't justify buying an iPad right now. Yeah, there are >>>> probably things the iPhone will be unable to do, but that hasn't hampered >>>> my productivity any. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Nic >>>> Mobile Me: [email protected] >>>> Skype: Kvalme >>>> MSN Messenger: [email protected] >>>> AIM: cincinster >>>> yahoo Messenger: cin368 >>>> Facebook Profile >>>> My Twitter >>>> >>>> On May 5, 2010, at 7:23 AM, Bryan Smart wrote: >>>> >>>>> OK. So, I've had my iPad Wi-Fi+3G for less than a week, and I've >>>>> already decided not to keep it. There is so much of a euphoric glow >>>>> on some of the lists about the wonderfulness of this device. I'm >>>>> the type of person that is always eager to investigate new >>>>> technologies and ways of working, and so expected that I'd agree with the >>>>> generally positive reception. I don't. >>>>> >>>>> I have experience with the iPhone, and, other than the fact that it >>>>> is slower to operate than a device with buttons, and that the >>>>> battery life is terrible when compared to most mobile phones, I >>>>> thought that it was an impressive piece of tech with an advanced approach >>>>> to user interaction. >>>>> >>>>> I was excited about the iPad, and expected it to bring everything >>>>> from an iPhone, only improved. First, the iPad would have a larger >>>>> screen, so it should be possible to more easily move my finger >>>>> directly to the position of known controls in order to speed up the >>>>> operation. Also, the iPad would have a significantly larger battery >>>>> than the iPhone, so I could spend hours using apps, even wireless >>>>> apps, without having to worry about draining the power away. >>>>> >>>>> The only universally great thing that I can say about the iPad is >>>>> that the battery is spectacular. With the screen brightness set to >>>>> low, it runs for a very long time. I've spent hours streaming >>>>> movies via Netflix over 3G, and the battery just keeps on going. >>>>> >>>>> Unfortunately, that's where it all ends. It isn't that I think that >>>>> the tech behind the iPad is necessarily bad. If you want this >>>>> experience, though, as a blind person, you're better off with an iPhone. >>>>> >>>>> Why? Well, let's compare the iPad to the iPhone 3GS. >>>>> >>>>> The iPad has a larger screen. If you're sighted, this is great for >>>>> watching video. Watching movies on a tiny phone screen has got to >>>>> be an eye strain. Blind people don't watch movies, and we can >>>>> listen to them just fine on an iPad or iPhone speaker. >>>>> >>>>> I thought that the larger screen would help with VoiceOver, but, >>>>> actually, it makes things worse. When you work an iPhone, placing >>>>> your finger at different positions on the screen only requires >>>>> wrist movement. The iPad screen is huge when compared to the >>>>> iPhone, and you must move your entire arm in order to navigate the >>>>> screen. This can become tiring after hours of computing, because >>>>> your arm can rarely rest on anything. If you don't hold your arm >>>>> up, with your fingers angled down, you're likely to bump the screen >>>>> with part of your wrist or forearm, causing VoiceOver's focus to >>>>> jump to some random position on the screen. This is particularly >>>>> frustrating because there is so much content on an iPad screen. If >>>>> you navigate through controls by swiping, you'll be swiping and >>>>> swiping and swiping and swiping to get to where you'd like. Of >>>>> course, you can directly explore with your finger, but I've noticed >>>>> that, in several places (like the App Store and Safari), tapping >>>>> somewhere doesn't necessarily mean that swiping will continue from >>>>> that point. In many places, I'll tap at a point on the screen, but, >>>>> when I start swiping, VoiceOver will always start from the top of >>>>> the screen. So, in those situations, if you accidentally touch the >>>>> screen with some other skin while swiping, or if VoiceOver mistakenly >>>>> interprets a swipe as a tap, then you'll lose your place, and need to >>>>> start from the top of the screen. >>>>> In the App Store in particular, I've swiped myself to frustration. >>>>> >>>>> The size of the screen is also not convenient for holding the iPad >>>>> like you would the iPhone. It must rest on your lap or a table. >>>>> And, with me pushing and tapping on it with both hands, I've had >>>>> some situations where it has nearly slid off of my lap. With the >>>>> screen being made of glass, that is not a great thought to ponder. >>>>> So, I think that the screen size is not only wasted on blind users, but >>>>> is also a drawback. >>>>> >>>>> The on-screen keyboard is a bit nicer to use on a large screen. >>>>> However, the touch-typing mode makes even one-handed typing on a >>>>> small screen a breeze. Besides that, the larger screen meant that a >>>>> lot more arm motion was required to type on an iPad. I tried the >>>>> two-handed typing approach in landscape mode, but find that, no >>>>> matter how well you place your hands, typing is very mistake prone. >>>>> For anyone that finds it hard to type for extended periods of time >>>>> on the iPhone, you can use the iPad keyboard dock with it when the next >>>>> iPhone OS comes out. >>>>> >>>>> VoiceOver is worse on the iPad. I'll just put my flame retardant >>>>> suit on right now for the hordes of people that will respond and >>>>> tell me how I'm wrong, how wonderful it is, and how it must be me. >>>>> Well, I've used an iPhone extensively, and I've used the touch >>>>> gestures on my MacBook Pro a lot, so I think that I'm pretty >>>>> familiar with how everything is supposed to work. On the iPad, for >>>>> gestures to work, I must over-act them. On my MacBook or iPhone, a >>>>> little flick of my finger is enough to indicate that I'd like to >>>>> move to the next item. On the iPad, I must make a huge swipe, >>>>> extending a few inches. Small flicks will work, sometimes, but >>>>> VoiceOver is very likely to just interpret the flick as a tap, and >>>>> jump my focus. As I've said before, given how huge the screen is, and how >>>>> the control order is broken in several important places, this is >>>>> extremely frustrating. >>>>> Having to make huge swipes means that my whole arm is involved, and >>>>> swiping and swiping and swiping with your whole arm will really >>>>> make your forearm sore after a few hours. Sometimes, the screen >>>>> won't even register that I touched or swiped. The iPhone screen seems >>>>> much more sensitive. >>>>> >>>>> The speech glitches at high speed. At 90% or above, Samantha can't >>>>> say "search", and other words, without chopping off the ends. >>>>> >>>>> And, my largest complaint about VoiceOver on the iPad. It doesn't >>>>> recognize, in most cases, when the screen updates. This seems to be >>>>> most noticeable on screens that use HTML/web content. Say that you >>>>> are in the App Store, or Safari, and you tap a link. You know that >>>>> a new page/screen must have loaded. Sometimes you'll hear the audio >>>>> cue indicating that the load completed, sometimes not. However, >>>>> most always, if you start swiping, you'll realize that you're >>>>> reviewing material from the old page. You must tap somewhere on the >>>>> screen for VoiceOver to realize that, in fact, the screen has >>>>> changed. This is annoying for purposes of situation and orientation. >>>>> >>>>> Here is how it should work. You double-tap a control. You wait. You >>>>> hear the completed audio cue, and VoiceOver speaks the first item >>>>> on the screen (which now has focus). Now, you can either start >>>>> swiping through controls, explore the screen with your finger, or >>>>> two-finger-swipe down to start reading the screen. >>>>> >>>>> This is how it works, though. You double-tap a control. You wait, >>>>> and wait and wait. You don't get any feedback about what is >>>>> happening, so you start exploring the screen with your finger. If >>>>> the screen hasn't finished loading yet, then VoiceOver will either >>>>> repeatedly click at you, or else you'll hear absolutely nothing >>>>> (because VoiceOver is frozen up). Once the screen finishes loading, >>>>> all of that tapping and touching that you did while VoiceOver was >>>>> frozen will be suddenly processed, and VoiceOver will start going >>>>> crazy with clicking and speaking fragments. Now, you aren't sure >>>>> where you are, so you must four-finger-swipe up to get to the beginning >>>>> of the screen, then start exploring. >>>>> >>>>> Another way that this can work out is that you double-tap a >>>>> control, and VoiceOver will say something (supposedly the first >>>>> control on the new screen "cancel button selected", or similar). >>>>> When you start swiping, though, you'll hear the contents from the >>>>> last screen. So, you first tap somewhere on the screen to force >>>>> VoiceOver to realize that the contents have changed, then >>>>> four-finger-swipe up to go to the beginning of the screen, then, finally, >>>>> start exploring. >>>>> >>>>> Honestly, this is ridiculous. It is hard to believe that Apple >>>>> couldn't catch such a problem. I guess that web support had minimal >>>>> testing. Lots of apps use imbedded web content, though, so this >>>>> happens in all sorts of apps from Wonder Radio to Net Flix. >>>>> >>>>> As a final VoiceOver thought, I've noticed that the iPad is >>>>> experiencing a problem that the iPhone had early on in its life. >>>>> For those of you with an iPad, lock the screen. Now, put your ear >>>>> up next to the speaker. Hear that hiss. Now, put your iPad down for >>>>> 5 minutes and come back. Still hear that hiss? That is the sound of >>>>> your iPad's audio hardware constantly running and draining your >>>>> battery. So, while the iPad's battery life is impressive in a >>>>> continuous run (like watching movies back to back), it sucks in a >>>>> similar way to the iPhone where you'll go to sleep with a full >>>>> battery, and wake up with 70% or less. There is no reason for that >>>>> on an iPad, since the iPad isn't doing sync for Visual Voicemail >>>>> and all of the other AT&T phone to tower chatter. That open speaker, >>>>> though, is probably the cause of most of the drain. >>>>> >>>>> I'm further discouraged to hear that the iPad won't be receiving an >>>>> OS update until the Fall. So, I suppose that these VoiceOver issues >>>>> will stand for at least 4 or 5 months. There will be a new iPhone, >>>>> and a new version of the OS for everyone else, in about a month. A >>>>> major OS update almost certainly means an update of VoiceOver. >>>>> >>>>> So, in the final analysis, the larger screen makes the iPad harder >>>>> to work for me, and VoiceOver has more problems than on an iPhone. >>>>> The larger battery is nice, but that isn't enough. In my mind, the >>>>> iPhone is all the iPad that a blind user needs. >>>>> >>>>> If you are thinking of returning yours, better decide fast. You >>>>> only have >>>>> 14 days after receiving your iPad to return it, and, even then, you >>>>> must pay a 10% restocking fee. >>>>> >>>>> The iPad is an interesting device, but I'd just rather use an >>>>> iPhone, I think. >>>>> >>>>> Bryan >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> [email protected]. >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> [email protected]. >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> [email protected]. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected]. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. 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