for me a mbp and a touch is good enough, if something packs it in I'll consider it, but for now I'm technology happy with what I have. On 2010-05-05, at 2:47 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote:
> I don't think I'll buy one as I have a lapotp and hopefully will be getting > an iphone so I hope for now all of my needs are solved. > > Take care. > > S > > Good luck. > On May 5, 2010, at 2:56 AM, Nicolai Svendsen wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> The iWork suite is probably what will cause me to buy it in the end. I have >> heard blind and sighted perspectives alike on the iPad, and some simply >> present an issue I have never even considered. Nevertheless, all opinions >> are of course valuable, and they are definitely helping me decide whether or >> not I am going to buy one. >> >> Regards, >> Nic >> Mobile Me: [email protected] >> Skype: Kvalme >> MSN Messenger: [email protected] >> AIM: cincinster >> yahoo Messenger: cin368 >> Facebook Profile >> My Twitter >> >> On May 5, 2010, at 11:52 AM, olivia norman wrote: >> >>> It's always interesting to get another prospective. I do have a case for >>> my iPad, so don't have to hold it up at all which helps. Personally, I >>> love the device, but as with anything, people have differing opinions and I >>> actually found Brian's experiences interesting and valuable to read. >>> I find that the four finger flick gesture really helps while moving around >>> most iPad screens, especially in applications such as mail and safari, this >>> gesture helps avoid swiping with one finger constantly. I also find that >>> applications such as iBooks and the iWork applications are wonderful >>> additions to this device, and afford the user functionality ad productivity >>> you just don't find on the iPhone. >>> In my way of thinking, these are two different kinds of devices, which >>> perform different functions and I use and think of them for completely >>> different things in my life. >>> There's also the issue with the iPhone's battery life. I can't for >>> instance, watch a movie or stream a youtube video for any length of time >>> with out experiencing significant battery drain. On my iPad, I am able to >>> watch videos for hours, no problem. >>> The case is a great, and IMO, needed, extra with the iPad for both blid and >>> sighted users. It allows for more comfortable use of the iPad and means >>> that you don't have to hold it or risk it falling. You can purchase it >>> from apple for about $39.99. >>> I am sorry to hear the iPad didn't work for you, Brian, and your experience >>> just shows that not every piece of technology works well for every user. >>> Thank you for posting this to the list! Have a great day! :) >>> Olivia >>> On May 5, 2010, at 4:52 AM, Nicolai Svendsen wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> He was saying it was uncomfortable to move around on the larger screen. If >>>> he has the case and puts it on a table, I'd imagine this would be a lot >>>> easier. At least, it sure would for me and would give me a better overview >>>> than having it in my lap, for example. Or, the frequent complaint that is >>>> often heard is that holding it up is also uncomfortable, which makes sense >>>> too. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Nic >>>> Mobile Me: [email protected] >>>> Skype: Kvalme >>>> MSN Messenger: [email protected] >>>> AIM: cincinster >>>> yahoo Messenger: cin368 >>>> Facebook Profile >>>> My Twitter >>>> >>>> On May 5, 2010, at 10:49 AM, Ben Mustill-Rose wrote: >>>> >>>>> What would the case solve though? >>>>> >>>>> I also have the vo freezing problem on my touch; I expected it to be >>>>> at least partly fixed on the ipad. >>>>> >>>>> On 05/05/2010, Nicolai Svendsen <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> >>>>>> Just one question. >>>>>> >>>>>> Why not get the iPad case and put it in there? That just seems like a >>>>>> logical solution to your dilemma. If you haven't sold it yet, give it >>>>>> here. >>>>>> lol >>>>>> >>>>>> Really, I've always thought the iPhone was mainly for a consumer. You can >>>>>> write long documents on it, but it is far from comfortable and very >>>>>> efficient. Well, you can write really quickly on that device, but >>>>>> really, it >>>>>> might get tiresome after a while. We will have Bluetooth keyboard >>>>>> support, >>>>>> though, so that is very exciting. >>>>>> >>>>>> I imagine the screen to be exactly the opposite of what you are saying. >>>>>> Sorry to disagree. I think the larger screen would aid me a great deal, >>>>>> and >>>>>> the split-screen is just a nifty feature to me. I won't get an iPad, >>>>>> though, >>>>>> and I have a lot of reasons for that. I'll try out an iPad at the end of >>>>>> May >>>>>> when they ship internationally, but I'm not going to be that excited. >>>>>> >>>>>> First, what can the iPad do that my iPhone cannot? iWork? Perhaps. But >>>>>> right >>>>>> now, I don't see myself using an iPad. Technically, the space I would >>>>>> take >>>>>> up if I hook up a bluetooth keyboard to the iPad is probably just as >>>>>> much as >>>>>> my Macbook, if a little bit less. The Macbook is faster, and I need the >>>>>> superior speed. I need to be able to type blazingly fast, and though I >>>>>> could >>>>>> do that with the iPad keyboard dock or bluetooth keyboards, I still don't >>>>>> want to carry those accessories around with me. Of course, that doesn't >>>>>> mean >>>>>> I can't become very efficient with the on-screen keyboard on the device. >>>>>> >>>>>> Secondly, yes, the glare from the iPad's LCD is hard on the eyes for a >>>>>> few >>>>>> hours. Having to read on the iPad or iPhone for long periods of time is a >>>>>> pain, and that is really only because it is bright. IF it was like the >>>>>> Kindle where you still need a lamp to read, great. >>>>>> >>>>>> Third, I just don't think the iPad is right for me. I want something >>>>>> small >>>>>> like my iPhone that can do all these things already, and I just can't >>>>>> justify buying an iPad right now. Yeah, there are probably things the >>>>>> iPhone >>>>>> will be unable to do, but that hasn't hampered my productivity any. >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards, >>>>>> Nic >>>>>> Mobile Me: [email protected] >>>>>> Skype: Kvalme >>>>>> MSN Messenger: [email protected] >>>>>> AIM: cincinster >>>>>> yahoo Messenger: cin368 >>>>>> Facebook Profile >>>>>> My Twitter >>>>>> >>>>>> On May 5, 2010, at 7:23 AM, Bryan Smart wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> OK. So, I've had my iPad Wi-Fi+3G for less than a week, and I've already >>>>>>> decided not to keep it. There is so much of a euphoric glow on some of >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> lists about the wonderfulness of this device. I'm the type of person >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> is always eager to investigate new technologies and ways of working, and >>>>>>> so expected that I'd agree with the generally positive reception. I >>>>>>> don't. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I have experience with the iPhone, and, other than the fact that it is >>>>>>> slower to operate than a device with buttons, and that the battery life >>>>>>> is >>>>>>> terrible when compared to most mobile phones, I thought that it was an >>>>>>> impressive piece of tech with an advanced approach to user interaction. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I was excited about the iPad, and expected it to bring everything from >>>>>>> an >>>>>>> iPhone, only improved. First, the iPad would have a larger screen, so it >>>>>>> should be possible to more easily move my finger directly to the >>>>>>> position >>>>>>> of known controls in order to speed up the operation. Also, the iPad >>>>>>> would >>>>>>> have a significantly larger battery than the iPhone, so I could spend >>>>>>> hours using apps, even wireless apps, without having to worry about >>>>>>> draining the power away. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The only universally great thing that I can say about the iPad is that >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> battery is spectacular. With the screen brightness set to low, it runs >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> a very long time. I've spent hours streaming movies via Netflix over 3G, >>>>>>> and the battery just keeps on going. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Unfortunately, that's where it all ends. It isn't that I think that the >>>>>>> tech behind the iPad is necessarily bad. If you want this experience, >>>>>>> though, as a blind person, you're better off with an iPhone. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Why? Well, let's compare the iPad to the iPhone 3GS. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The iPad has a larger screen. If you're sighted, this is great for >>>>>>> watching video. Watching movies on a tiny phone screen has got to be an >>>>>>> eye strain. Blind people don't watch movies, and we can listen to them >>>>>>> just fine on an iPad or iPhone speaker. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I thought that the larger screen would help with VoiceOver, but, >>>>>>> actually, >>>>>>> it makes things worse. When you work an iPhone, placing your finger at >>>>>>> different positions on the screen only requires wrist movement. The iPad >>>>>>> screen is huge when compared to the iPhone, and you must move your >>>>>>> entire >>>>>>> arm in order to navigate the screen. This can become tiring after hours >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> computing, because your arm can rarely rest on anything. If you don't >>>>>>> hold >>>>>>> your arm up, with your fingers angled down, you're likely to bump the >>>>>>> screen with part of your wrist or forearm, causing VoiceOver's focus to >>>>>>> jump to some random position on the screen. This is particularly >>>>>>> frustrating because there is so much content on an iPad screen. If you >>>>>>> navigate through controls by swiping, you'll be swiping and swiping and >>>>>>> swiping and swiping to get to where you'd like. Of course, you can >>>>>>> directly explore with your finger, but I've noticed that, in several >>>>>>> places (like the App Store and Safari), tapping somewhere doesn't >>>>>>> necessarily mean that swiping will continue from that point. In many >>>>>>> places, I'll tap at a point on the screen, but, when I start swiping, >>>>>>> VoiceOver will always start from the top of the screen. So, in those >>>>>>> situations, if you accidentally touch the screen with some other skin >>>>>>> while swiping, or if VoiceOver mistakenly interprets a swipe as a tap, >>>>>>> then you'll lose your place, and need to start from the top of the >>>>>>> screen. >>>>>>> In the App Store in particular, I've swiped myself to frustration. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The size of the screen is also not convenient for holding the iPad like >>>>>>> you would the iPhone. It must rest on your lap or a table. And, with me >>>>>>> pushing and tapping on it with both hands, I've had some situations >>>>>>> where >>>>>>> it has nearly slid off of my lap. With the screen being made of glass, >>>>>>> that is not a great thought to ponder. So, I think that the screen size >>>>>>> is >>>>>>> not only wasted on blind users, but is also a drawback. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The on-screen keyboard is a bit nicer to use on a large screen. However, >>>>>>> the touch-typing mode makes even one-handed typing on a small screen a >>>>>>> breeze. Besides that, the larger screen meant that a lot more arm motion >>>>>>> was required to type on an iPad. I tried the two-handed typing approach >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> landscape mode, but find that, no matter how well you place your hands, >>>>>>> typing is very mistake prone. For anyone that finds it hard to type for >>>>>>> extended periods of time on the iPhone, you can use the iPad keyboard >>>>>>> dock >>>>>>> with it when the next iPhone OS comes out. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> VoiceOver is worse on the iPad. I'll just put my flame retardant suit on >>>>>>> right now for the hordes of people that will respond and tell me how I'm >>>>>>> wrong, how wonderful it is, and how it must be me. Well, I've used an >>>>>>> iPhone extensively, and I've used the touch gestures on my MacBook Pro a >>>>>>> lot, so I think that I'm pretty familiar with how everything is supposed >>>>>>> to work. On the iPad, for gestures to work, I must over-act them. On my >>>>>>> MacBook or iPhone, a little flick of my finger is enough to indicate >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> I'd like to move to the next item. On the iPad, I must make a huge >>>>>>> swipe, >>>>>>> extending a few inches. Small flicks will work, sometimes, but VoiceOver >>>>>>> is very likely to just interpret the flick as a tap, and jump my focus. >>>>>>> As >>>>>>> I've said before, given how huge the screen is, and how the control >>>>>>> order >>>>>>> is broken in several important places, this is extremely frustrating. >>>>>>> Having to make huge swipes means that my whole arm is involved, and >>>>>>> swiping and swiping and swiping with your whole arm will really make >>>>>>> your >>>>>>> forearm sore after a few hours. Sometimes, the screen won't even >>>>>>> register >>>>>>> that I touched or swiped. The iPhone screen seems much more sensitive. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The speech glitches at high speed. At 90% or above, Samantha can't say >>>>>>> "search", and other words, without chopping off the ends. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And, my largest complaint about VoiceOver on the iPad. It doesn't >>>>>>> recognize, in most cases, when the screen updates. This seems to be most >>>>>>> noticeable on screens that use HTML/web content. Say that you are in the >>>>>>> App Store, or Safari, and you tap a link. You know that a new >>>>>>> page/screen >>>>>>> must have loaded. Sometimes you'll hear the audio cue indicating that >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> load completed, sometimes not. However, most always, if you start >>>>>>> swiping, >>>>>>> you'll realize that you're reviewing material from the old page. You >>>>>>> must >>>>>>> tap somewhere on the screen for VoiceOver to realize that, in fact, the >>>>>>> screen has changed. This is annoying for purposes of situation and >>>>>>> orientation. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Here is how it should work. You double-tap a control. You wait. You hear >>>>>>> the completed audio cue, and VoiceOver speaks the first item on the >>>>>>> screen >>>>>>> (which now has focus). Now, you can either start swiping through >>>>>>> controls, >>>>>>> explore the screen with your finger, or two-finger-swipe down to start >>>>>>> reading the screen. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This is how it works, though. You double-tap a control. You wait, and >>>>>>> wait >>>>>>> and wait. You don't get any feedback about what is happening, so you >>>>>>> start >>>>>>> exploring the screen with your finger. If the screen hasn't finished >>>>>>> loading yet, then VoiceOver will either repeatedly click at you, or else >>>>>>> you'll hear absolutely nothing (because VoiceOver is frozen up). Once >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> screen finishes loading, all of that tapping and touching that you did >>>>>>> while VoiceOver was frozen will be suddenly processed, and VoiceOver >>>>>>> will >>>>>>> start going crazy with clicking and speaking fragments. Now, you aren't >>>>>>> sure where you are, so you must four-finger-swipe up to get to the >>>>>>> beginning of the screen, then start exploring. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Another way that this can work out is that you double-tap a control, and >>>>>>> VoiceOver will say something (supposedly the first control on the new >>>>>>> screen "cancel button selected", or similar). When you start swiping, >>>>>>> though, you'll hear the contents from the last screen. So, you first tap >>>>>>> somewhere on the screen to force VoiceOver to realize that the contents >>>>>>> have changed, then four-finger-swipe up to go to the beginning of the >>>>>>> screen, then, finally, start exploring. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Honestly, this is ridiculous. It is hard to believe that Apple couldn't >>>>>>> catch such a problem. I guess that web support had minimal testing. Lots >>>>>>> of apps use imbedded web content, though, so this happens in all sorts >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> apps from Wonder Radio to Net Flix. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As a final VoiceOver thought, I've noticed that the iPad is >>>>>>> experiencing a >>>>>>> problem that the iPhone had early on in its life. For those of you with >>>>>>> an >>>>>>> iPad, lock the screen. Now, put your ear up next to the speaker. Hear >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> hiss. Now, put your iPad down for 5 minutes and come back. Still hear >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> hiss? That is the sound of your iPad's audio hardware constantly running >>>>>>> and draining your battery. So, while the iPad's battery life is >>>>>>> impressive >>>>>>> in a continuous run (like watching movies back to back), it sucks in a >>>>>>> similar way to the iPhone where you'll go to sleep with a full battery, >>>>>>> and wake up with 70% or less. There is no reason for that on an iPad, >>>>>>> since the iPad isn't doing sync for Visual Voicemail and all of the >>>>>>> other >>>>>>> AT&T phone to tower chatter. That open speaker, though, is probably the >>>>>>> cause of most of the drain. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm further discouraged to hear that the iPad won't be receiving an OS >>>>>>> update until the Fall. So, I suppose that these VoiceOver issues will >>>>>>> stand for at least 4 or 5 months. There will be a new iPhone, and a new >>>>>>> version of the OS for everyone else, in about a month. A major OS update >>>>>>> almost certainly means an update of VoiceOver. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So, in the final analysis, the larger screen makes the iPad harder to >>>>>>> work >>>>>>> for me, and VoiceOver has more problems than on an iPhone. The larger >>>>>>> battery is nice, but that isn't enough. In my mind, the iPhone is all >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> iPad that a blind user needs. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If you are thinking of returning yours, better decide fast. You only >>>>>>> have >>>>>>> 14 days after receiving your iPad to return it, and, even then, you must >>>>>>> pay a 10% restocking fee. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The iPad is an interesting device, but I'd just rather use an iPhone, I >>>>>>> think. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Bryan >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups >>>>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> [email protected]. >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> [email protected]. >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> [email protected]. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected]. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. 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