Hi Chris, Erik here from ebony consulting in toronto. I feel your pain. To comment on a couple of things that have been said, I actually find that if you turn automatic interaction via tab key then things work more like windows, in direct contrast to what others have said.
I also liked what Gigi said about sometimes when there's a disconnect trying to teach the theory and apply it, you might be better off just rolling with it. Teach a set of steps to accomplish a task and forget why it works as long as it does. That's a more limited approach but it removes the fear barrier as long as the set of steps works reliably. All that assumes practice. 15 minutes a day is not really a hardship for anyone. I always recommend that to my clients. I have two thoughts on this. If my client is paying their own bills, then I will sit them down and tell them straight up that they're wasting their money unless they make some changes. Then if they still want to pay I keep taking their money and muddle along as best I can. If an organization is paying for the support, then I sit the client down and tell them they have to make the changes or they are going to lose their funding. I have to document every hour as I'm sure you do as well. When I get consistent no practice, I put it in the report and the client loses their funding. It sucks to have to do that, but quite honestly, I'm not making the kind of money that makes me want to deal with a lot of frustration. As long as the effort is there I don't care how long it takes to nail down a skill, but if the effort isn't there, then there's some one waiting in line to take that person's spot, one fringe benefit of being a good trainer. :) You can't save the world. Hope this helps, Erik Burggraaf Introducing Ebony Consulting business card transcription service, starting at $0.45 per card or $35 per hundred cards. Ebony Consulting toll-free: 1-888-255-5194 or on the web at http://www.erik-burggraaf.com On 2012-06-03, at 11:47 PM, Chris Gilland wrote: > okay… I really could use you awls help. > > I myself am also a Mac voiceover trainer. I have a student who is starting > from ground one. to the best of my knowledge, I do not believe that she even > knew what voiceover was left alone how to use it until I told her of its > existence. she is doing great, however now we're to the point where I am > trying to help her learn the concept of interacting with certain items. at > this point, she is following behind miserably. I'm not saying that it's her > fault, it's probably the way that I am presenting it to her. I honestly am > not sure how else to make this easier. I have tried literally almost every > analogy underneath the sun. I tried explaining to her that voiceover works > very hierarchically. to her, that made entirely no sense. she somewhat gets > the concept when interacting with tables, but that's about as far as it goes. > even then, I can tell that her concept on the matter is very hazy. I told her > also to think of a bookshelf with three or four ring binders if she wanted to > get to the third binder, and then look at the 15th page within that binder, > she would first have to cross over the first and second binder without even > looking inside of them. then, once at the third binder, she could then open > it up, and then flip to the 15th page. I tried explaining to her that > interacting with items on voiceover is much the same. you have an item where > your voiceover cursor sits. you can either use voice over navigation to pass > right over the items, or you can climb a level down and see what is > underneath that item, by interacting with it. her exact words when I said > this work: "okay, now you really lost me! " I am pretty much out of options. > I don't know what else to tell her to try. I am determined to help her. > However, it seems like until we get past this concept, voiceover is going to > be very hard for her to use. whether she uses keyboard commander, trackpad > commander, or for that mind, even quick nap, she's going to need to know the > concept of what it means to interact. There's just no other way around it. > she does not have any learning disabilities, so it kind of surprises me that > all of my other students catch on to this pretty quickly, yet she is not. I > have asked her specifically to tell me what she does not understand about the > concept, however she is not able to articulate what exactly it is that she > does not understand about the concept. I think a lot of it too, is the fact > that she is barely even practicing. I give her certain exercises to try > throughout the day, and every time I do, next time we get together, I asked > her if she practiced, and she very truthfully tells me know. I have had > absolutely nothing to practice with, even though she is fully aware that I > gave her an assignment. I do not know how she ever is going to learn if she > keeps not practicing. I understand her getting frustrated, but when I am > genuinely trying to help her in any way form or shape that I can, I would > expect for her to at least have enough respect to put forth a bit of effort. > I just wonder how much of this is that she really doesn't understand, versus > how much of it is she really seriously is just not trying. I do not want to > be rude to her, however when I see that she is making no progress at all, and > that it's obvious by her admission, that she is not practicing, what the hell > more am I supposed to do? pardon the language, but this is extremely > frustrating. what do you all who are also trainers do when you have students > like this, is simply either one do not get the concept of something, or > simply click do not try and it's very obvious that they are illustrating > their lack of effort. this student has had her state lend her a MacBook for > three weeks. This means she only has that amount of time to learn. We are > extremely early in the three-week process, however, I won't hurt to get the > most out of this that she possibly can. most of the things that we already > have learned, she is also forgetting almost constantly. No, I do not expect > for her to learn all of these things in one night, absolutely not! however, I > know that she would be remembering way more than she is if she were willing > to sit down for at least 15 minutes a day in practice. She does not seem to > even be given me that much. what would be the best thing to do? I do not want > to be rude to her, but I also need to let her know I'm very certain terms, > but I cannot continue this training with her, if she is not going to do her > part. my responsibility is to train and be patient, her responsibility is to > practice. maybe I am very strict of a teacher, but I know her potential. I > know that she can get this. She just has to be willing to try. don't get me > wrong, I am seeing some effort, just not very much. when we stepped a bit out > of her comfort zone, she refuses to continue. > > any advice on how to handle this from a trainer's perspective would be most > greatly appreciated. I'm completely at a loss as to what else to do. > > thanks. > > by the way, sorry for all of the typos in this message. I am dictating this > using Siri on my iPhone. frankly in my opinion, she is doing a horrible job > tonight! > > Chris. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
