You make some good points that I can't disagree with. If we could just have developed standards and have them used, that would take us down the best route I think.
On 11/26/12, Chris Blouch <[email protected]> wrote: > There are a couple difficulties with the secret repair approach: > > 1. It enables developers to continue with bad habits which they will > apply to more and more pages over time. At some point they need to learn > to stop doing bad things. Often time the bad behavior also conflicts > with web standards and best practices so sloppy code will break other > things down the road (canary in the coal mine scenarios). The show up as > weird intermittent hard to track down issues which burn up developer > time 'fixing accessibility'. > > 2. The automated repair techniques can also get it wrong, making correct > page code do bad things, or do the repair incorrectly in some > situations. This makes some bugs hard to track down since a chunk of bad > code in one situation works ok but fails in the other leaving the > developer scratching their heads and just saying the screen readers are > buggy, inconsistent and therefore accessibility is just to much work. > > 3. It's a black hole for screen reader developer time. I'm sure the > Jaws, NVDA or VoiceOver developers can pretty quickly define how much > implementation time it will take to parse correct HTML and give a > reasonable text representation, but how many use cases and scenarios are > there to implement for handling all the incorrect HTML? An infinite > number of monkeys and typewriters might be able to do that but most > companies have finite budgets, even Apple. > > CB > > On 11/24/12 2:57 PM, James Mannion wrote: >> I would say if the screen reader can "fix" bad code and make it work >> the way it should have, please do it! There are more than plenty of >> instances where you will never get the developer to fix it or even >> begin to care. If you do then there are advantages to that, but who >> knows how many weeks, months or years it would take for that to >> happen. So how about if the screen reader told you it corrected >> something, allowed you to turn that functionality off if you really >> wanted to and then you could get tings done and then take all your >> time trying to right the world in Nigotiations with the developer if >> you wanted to. Have fun. >> >> On 11/24/12, Jürgen Fleger <[email protected]> wrote: >>> Got it. That's really interesting. I like this way of philosophie. But >>> on >>> the other hand for a "simple" user the most important seems to be that >>> the >>> screen reader just works. The "average" user is probably not interested >>> in >>> technical back ground stuff but in just working with a web side as easily >>> as >>> possible. Eventually that's Apples philosophie in all there products for >>> sighted customers. >>> I wished they tried to implement some stuff in VO to compensate bad code >>> from web side developers. In the end it takes my time to surf a web side >>> not >>> theirs. >>> But thanks again for your explanation. It gives me more clarity. >>> Jürgen >>> >>> Am 24.11.2012 um 01:45 schrieb Chris Blouch <[email protected]>: >>> >>>> One problem with Jaws is that it will attempt to 'repair' bad HTML >>>> under >>>> the hood. For testing this masks errors in a site from developers such >>>> that Jaws might work ok but other screen readers are not as tolerant of >>>> bad code in a particular setup. VoiceOver on Mac and NVDA on Windows do >>>> not attempt to repair bad code and rely on developers doing the right >>>> thing to begin with. This philosophical difference means comparisons of >>>> compatibility between Jaws and any other screen reader/browser combo >>>> just >>>> isn't going to match. >>>> >>>> CB >>>> >>>> On 11/22/12 11:18 AM, Jürgen Fleger wrote: >>>>> That happens here as well. Apple probably will tell you that it >>>>> depends >>>>> how the side is built. >>>>> I recently discribed to them the issue that VO quite often doesn't >>>>> interact with a web page, despite the fact that it's checked in the >>>>> the >>>>> VO settings. They told me it depends on the web side not on VO. My >>>>> impression is Safari is not built to support all the possibilities of >>>>> VoiceOver. And so it seems not to work reliablly. But I wonder why it >>>>> works in Internet Explorer and Jaws on the same side. Maybe the >>>>> structure >>>>> of Internet Explorer allows a better compatibility to a screen reader. >>>>> I >>>>> don't know. But if it is not a VO issue and it works in Windows screen >>>>> readers it might be so. >>>>> >>>>> Am 20.11.2012 um 18:53 schrieb Alex Hall <[email protected]>: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> Every so often, when I load or reload a page, vo will restart. I will >>>>>> hear "Voiceover on" after several seconds of intense activity from >>>>>> the >>>>>> hard drive, and things will proceed normally from there. Why would vo >>>>>> be >>>>>> crashing, and are there logs I could use to pinpoint the problem or >>>>>> at >>>>>> least tell Apple what is going on? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Have a great day, >>>>>> Alex (msg sent from Mac Mini) >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>> -- >>>> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups >>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> [email protected]. >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> [email protected]. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>> >>> > > -- > ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. 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