On Wed, 2020-09-16 at 03:51 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users writes: > > > I personally think that you, Stephen, are digging high and low to find > > any reason for Mailman2 to not continue forward under the Mailman > > umbrella. > > Digging?? Wake up, Jim! It's *official policy* that Mailman 2 will > not receive new features under the Mailman umbrella. It has been so > for *years*. And the reasons have been the same for just as long: > It's because we don't want to support them. Mark and I have both been > quite clear about that. > > If you will support Mailman 2 going forward as we (ie, mostly Mark) > have supported it to date, that would be fine. But you've explicitly > denied that you want to do that work. You don't think it's necessary. > We think it addresses the needs of the users who need us most, so > we'll keep doing it our way, ie, we will support no new features.
Wait, so you do want to continue to support mm2 users, but you don't want to support them in any fashion if someone else other than you and Mark manages just the new features? (BTW, NEWS lists New Features were added as recently as 2020-April) Do you feel that you would be obligated to support something that was added to mm2 that you didn't feel should be added or that you couldn't provide support for? Is that what this is all about? > > Obstruction much? > > There you go with the abuse again. But I'll answer you politely. > > Mailman is free software. There's no "obstruction" at all, it's > almost impossible to obstruct you -- you have the code, it's easy to > find well-known places to host your releases and issue tracker, and > we're not going to stop you from announcing them here or on the wiki. > You don't need anything else. > > You demand a bunch of perks: use of the Mailman brand, commit rights > in the official Mailman 2 repository, manager access to the tracker (I > assume), a seat in the cabal, etc. I demanded nothing. I was told by Mark that I would need to apply for all those perks (sans the Cabal seat) when all I offered to do was support/test/debug/evaluate/approve new features in launchpad. > You also apparently think you have > the right to tell Mark and me which releases we should support. No I don't, and I don't know why you can't differentiate between Mailman and yourself. Mailman should, and can, support multiple versions. You and Mark should feel free to contribute wherever you feel comfortable; but I draw the line at you saying mm2 should die because you don't want to support it under the parameters and guidelines designed and established by yourself (and Mark). I think the genuine problem here is that it's a 2 man show when it should be a much larger body. Now, no one should be shielded from criticism when they attempt to abandon an installed base of users. Remember, we are at this juncture today because several people spoke up, over the past year, about all the repeated "Final Release" warnings. It took at least 2 days of back-n- forth emails just to get someone to say publicly that mm2 security issues would indeed still be addressed going forward (why was it so difficult to come to that reasoning?). Also, don't forget that this time last Summer there were some discussions on this list about how mm2 would be eol on 1/1/2020 because that was the Python team's v2 eol. > My question is: what do our users get in return? If they wanted "bright! > new! shiny!", they'd migrate to Mailman 3. I don't see much in the > plus column. On the minus side, Mark and I will spend time supporting > your new features, time we can't spend on "classic" Mailman 2 issues, > Python 2 EOL issues, or on Mailman 3 development, which is what the > project is committed to, as Mark and I are. > > I don't see that as a good deal for Mark and me, or for the great > majority of Mailman 2 users. Why just you and Mark? What about any of the other many people who contribute and help in various ways? -Jim P. ------------------------------------------------------ Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/ Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/ https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/
