Multiple Message-ID/id headers for MSA mails has been brought to the right people’s (as far as I know) attention.
From: mailop [mailto:mailop-boun...@mailop.org] On Behalf Of Michael Wise Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2015 12:23 PM To: mailop@mailop.org Subject: Re: [mailop] Microsoft sending multiple Message-ID headers in password reset links.. I’ve been on the list for a while, no need to consult archives. But the recent threads I have found … disconcerting. Yes, there’s a lot of angst, mostly about things that we can’t typically do anything about; those are not topics we should be discussing. Things that can be dealt with, especially if it involves my employer, all over it. One off complaints, or … LOOK AT ALL THESE HOST NAMES LEAKING SPAM, OH NOEZ! … when we’re sending hundreds of millions of legit emails a day… for businesses you know … I grieve. We have issues. (“Who doesn’t? Ours are just bigger than most at times…”) On the “Protection” side as well as the “Outlook/Hotmail” side. Some of those I can be an advocate for change on, but it’s not like the old days when I could cobble together a spam classification system based on some ProcMail and PERL scripts, and have it pumping out actionable intel in a matter of days; other people do the Exchange-Equivalent (?!) of those things now, and I have next to no input. Not for lack of trying. I can block traffic from the “Protection” side, or at least mark it as spam as it goes out. “SFV:SPM” is my little gift to y’all. And I can sometimes escalate other issues, especially if it really is impacting your system or pushing systems over onto the floor. But I can’t handle one-off complaints. I don’t scale. And, in most cases, I gather, neither do y’all. As for the Outlook/Hotmail side of the house (stuff that doesn’t have, “Protection” in the rDNS, there’s very little I can do. Complaining to Abuse@ won’t get you anywhere, because they’re only interested in handling stuff with @microsoft.com addresses, for the most part; I don’t talk to those people so can’t state with certainty, but y’all have enough stories I’m sure. I can’t help there. If you’re blocked by Outlook/Hotmail, the link is … down-thread somewhere, and it’s the only way into the ticketing system, and Legal and Corporate Affairs (LCA) insists that this be the only way that those issues get handled. “ What we do for one, we must do for all. “ If we can’t do it for all, we can’t do it at all. It’s the only way the volume of work can scale. Aloha, Michael. -- Michael J Wise | Microsoft | Spam Analysis | "Your Spam Specimen Has Been Processed." | Got the Junk Mail Reporting Tool<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.microsoft.com%2fen-us%2fdownload%2fdetails.aspx%3fid%3d18275&data=01%7c01%7ckgarewal%40microsoft.com%7c5e04a7cd1b04493f9afb08d2be03bbe1%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=GWYpFFbuQCpcjNSMLgxjry2tMWoddKhLi66ot1dj%2b3Q%3d> ? From: Gil Bahat [mailto:g...@magisto.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2015 12:07 PM To: Michael Wise <michael.w...@microsoft.com<mailto:michael.w...@microsoft.com>> Cc: Steve Freegard <steve.freeg...@fsl.com<mailto:steve.freeg...@fsl.com>>; mailop@mailop.org<mailto:mailop@mailop.org> Subject: Re: [mailop] Microsoft sending multiple Message-ID headers in password reset links.. Hi, the archives will quickly tell you the list never was such and thus isn't likely to become one. there's enough value in the list - varying of course by your definition of value. If I were you, I'd stick around the list, perhaps answer a bit less or only when you find things interesting. As a sidenote, I'm nowhere near surprised by the angst level of senders and recipients alike, created by distrust between mailbox operators and senders. IMHO If the industry would work on better communication facilities, things should gradually cool down, on a long term scale. Regards, Gil Bahat, DevOps/Postmaster, Magisto Ltd. On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 9:44 PM, Michael Wise <michael.w...@microsoft.com<mailto:michael.w...@microsoft.com>> wrote: No, it doesn't. After all, technically Message-ID is an optional field. I bitch and moan about that, but nobody cares... They all end up pointing to, "SHOULD", and I can't really do anything but :'( And the information is not pertinent. If this ML is going to become a forum for reporting spam, I'm gone. Aloha, Michael. -- Michael J Wise | Microsoft | Spam Analysis | "Your Spam Specimen Has Been Processed." | Got the Junk Mail Reporting Tool ? -----Original Message----- From: mailop [mailto:mailop-boun...@mailop.org<mailto:mailop-boun...@mailop.org>] On Behalf Of Steve Freegard Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2015 11:33 AM To: mailop@mailop.org<mailto:mailop@mailop.org> Subject: Re: [mailop] Microsoft sending multiple Message-ID headers in password reset links.. On 15/09/15 18:24, Al Iverson via https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=mailop.org&data=01%7c01%7cmichael.wise%40microsoft.com%7c014eb44783c04c70154808d2bdfd28d0%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=iUlvmPaHW9GC7kLBrxjNx0ssuXy8JD5nGgnneQ%2bZV2I%3d wrote: > Is this truly having an immediate negative impact operationally? It > seems like this could be feedback you could give them directly, > offlist, without having to share it with the rest of us. > > Very funny. Feedback to where? Their 1st line support wouldn't have a clue what to do with that. I'm sure that plenty of us check RFC validity (e.g. there shouldn't be more than one Message-Id header), so it's pretty pertinent information. I'm sure it's causing them issues with deliverability because of it. Regards, Steve. _______________________________________________ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org<mailto:mailop@mailop.org> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fchilli.nosignal.org%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2fmailop&data=01%7c01%7cmichael.wise%40microsoft.com%7c014eb44783c04c70154808d2bdfd28d0%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=nG6dlE9YS5zm9Ei7ERHdt%2b7AQj9S5YRtdilQ%2fgKgIzs%3d _______________________________________________ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org<mailto:mailop@mailop.org> http://chilli.nosignal.org/mailman/listinfo/mailop<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fchilli.nosignal.org%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2fmailop&data=01%7c01%7cMichael.Wise%40microsoft.com%7c64b4aa114e5048f5ca8708d2be00c584%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=9qFMQjn5ZjhKQS4vPNKou5KhG1mWV%2fRmw0sTPmIeXYA%3d>
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