Dear mailing lister,
It?s the first time I?ve written to this mailing list,
so I suppose I have to briefly present myself. I?m an Italian student with
a great love for classical subjects, so I hope you will forgive me if I
make mistakes writing in English. I have decided to register to this mailing
list in order to express, compare and critic new opinions on Virgil?s works.
I think that none can?t love Virgil because, like many authors of our past,
he has discovered the secrets of man, the way to shock us, the combination
of our heart and mind?s lock. His poetry is immortal and, out of any philological
matter, he will always be a great model and one of our most illustrious
ancestors, as Italo Calvino says, ?He hasn?t finished to say what he has
to say?. Finally, I wish my ?social status? of student won?t be a limit
for my participation in the discussions and I?ll be really pleased to receive
any kind of critic.
During this month I?ve been acquainted on last topics, especially 1) the
one about the way to teach Virgil in translation and 2) the comparison between
Virgil and Tolkien. In this letter I?m going to express my opinions on these
two subjects.
1) My opinion about teaching Virgil in translation wouldn?t be the cleverest
but, probably, one of the closest to students? needs. I ignored how students
of your courses know Latin, but they probably have more difficult than Italian
students to understand what it is written about, even superficially. I also
ignore how much time you can spend on Aeneid, but I make my ?modest proposal?
(It is not to bake students who don?t understand Latin as Swift would said,
they?re not so good after all): acquaint students of the whole story (by
a detailed summary, or by reading the whole book in translation if you can),
then give them Latin extracts from the best part of Aeneid (like the prologue
and some verses of Book II and IV) and the English translations next to
Latin verses. In this way they won?t have problem to understand the meaning
and can convey their attention to the beauty and oneness of Latin text.
Hoc est meum consilium. I think that teaching Virgil only in Latin or only
in translation would be useless in the same way. In the first case because
it would be too hard to understand and would lose great part of his beauty.
Likewise reading Aeneid only in translation, even by the best translator
in the world, would be an irreparable loss. Every Latin translation, especially
of poetry, is a mystified text, because there are some hidden ideas and
concepts sent by the author we can find out only in the Latin text and that
should be very important in the refined culture of Augustan age. For example
what Horace calls ?Callida iunctura?, shrewd union, putting 2 words, grammatically
separated or that can be interpreted in 2 different ways, one next to the
other ?Infandum, regina, iubes renovare dolorem? (Aen. II,3). Infandum refers
to dolerem but the reader, and the listener in the case of Dido and Virgil?s
public, connect it to regina, understanding that her wonderful qualities
are indescribable or that is an hidden offence, like horrible, that anticipates
the end of book IV. Another irremediable loss in translation is the metric.
Poetic texts were born as a very strict union of text and sound (probably
its declamation was accompanied by a music of some kind), so reading it
in translation means losing a great part of the pleasure the text offers
us. Do you think that if I read an English music?s text in translation without
listening to the music, I?d feel the same sensations of you? Or would it
be the same if you read a translation of an Italian melodrama, or if you
watched it at theatre enjoying also his music beauty? I don?t think so!
Therefore I think Ioannidis Nikolaus?s work is very interesting and very
useful to better understand the phenomenological complexity of Greek poetry.
By complex researches he?s tried to recompose some Greek musical texts and
he?s set them to music. I think he reached excellent results, especially
for us, lovers of classics, even if we will never know how ?our ancestors?
declaimed. I own Ioannidis?s CD, however, if you want to list some extracts
from CD, go to http://homoecumenicus.com/lyrics_ioannidis.htm/.
At least I?d like to evidence the effect that Aeneid?s declamations had
on Virgil?s public. Through many ancient testimonies we know that the way
Aeneas is asked to tell his adventures and then his narration (Book II-III)
is a perfect mirror of the way Aeneid was narrated during Latin Symposia,
sometime by Virgil himself . His pathetic tone, in fact, recreates the atmosphere
of synpatheia of those symposia, during which some listeners were so shocked
to get strike for a long time (in these sense the prologue of book IV ?At
regina gravi?.?, after Aeneas?s narration) or even to faint. Therefore this
another proof that translations, some times very mediocre, bereave us of
great part of emotions the author wants to tell us. And this is the reason
because Patrick Roper, whose letter I really liked, wrote:
?A while later I picked up The Aeneid to continue where I had got to in
Book
III. The first line I read was "Nox erat et terris animalia somnus
habebant," strikingly similar to my earlier experience and the way I had
expressed it (only much better).?
He managed to come into contact with the work and he got shocked as well
as Virgil?s public had got.
2) The discussion about the comparison between Virgil and Tolkien has interested
me from the beginning. I?ve read ?The Hobbit? and this summer I read ?The
Lord of the Rings?, in translation of course (I really don?t know how I
had time to do it, since I had to read 11 books for school!). I?ve also
read one of Tolkien?s biographies, so I think I am able to make a brief
comparison between the two authors. Firstly I disagree with people who consider
?The Lord? a misinterpretation, as Bloom says, of Aeneid. The Lord cannot
be defined a classical work. If it contains something that can be connected
to the ?Classical taste?, these things are what medieval literature saved
of classical motifs. Thus some passages of the Lord can be more easily connected
to episodes of medieval English texts and Nordic sagas. I am not an expert
in this field, but I?ve read some extracts of Beowulf and of other medieval
English texts (in original language not in translation) and the description
of Mordor in the Lord, cited by David, seems to me more similar to the description
of the bog in Beowulf than to any Virgil?s verse. In the same way, in my
opinion, the monster of the cave between the Ithilien and Mordor revives
the description of the monster of the bog, the damned soul.
According to me, teaching Tolkien with classical epic poems
is an unforgivable mistake, because this way makes many of their big differences
banal. In order not to waste time and not to bore you (I?ve done it enough),
I will simply list them, but I will be pleased to analyse them if you ask
me.
Firstly The Lord isn?t a problematic text, it lacks of Virgil
?humanitas?, of the ability of all classical writers to evidence humanity
and good feelings also in the protagonist?s enemies. On the contrary Tolkien
tries to simplify reality, in a nearly manicheistic vision he divides the
universe in Good and Evil, his mot his ?No pity for enemies?. Ergo if a
comparison between the two authors can be do it deals with the political
issues of their works. Virgil was obliged to write an exaltation of Augustus
and of Roman values, Tolkien was a victim of the wrong American ideology
during his contemporary period. However Virgil created a masterpiece for
any time, while Tolkien wrote a good book to relax and adapted only for
a society searching a glorious identity that wants to mask its problems
and its amorality. Sorry, I forgot I have only to list their differences!
In Tolkien the universe is dominated by the Case, in Virgil
there is the trust in a supreme Justice, Zeus, the word cannot collapse,
the pius man will finally win. Therefore in Virgil the story develops in
a linear-finalistic way, as an anticipations of Christians ideas of Story:
the war, started by Aeneas and Turnus, will finish with Augustus, as the
fate wanted (Aeneas?s shield and Book I vv.293-296).
Aeneas-Turnus_________war________Augustus_______peace______
Tolkien, instead, has a circular vision of story: a real peace won?t
exist, the Evil will come again, tensions survive, equilibrium isn?t stable,
direct conflict is unavoidable.
The last difference I want to underline is the vision of the nature. In
the Lord the nature hasn?t its own soul, exception for Ents, it takes the
characteristic of people who dominate it, it?s a mirror of them (Mordor
becomes loam again when Evil disappears). Virgil, instead, considers nature
a place full of mysterious and fascinating powers, it has its own life;
man can modify nature but he has to work hard, it doesn?t change spontaneously.
Finally I think that one of best expression of Latin mentality can?t be
compared to one of clearest expression of American ideas. They are too different
to be studied together!
I?ve finished my comment; I wish not to have been boring. I will be please
of any comment from you.
Thank you for the attention
>-- Messaggio originale --
>From: "Helen South" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: VIRGIL: RE: VIRGIL teaching Aeneid - inspiring students
>Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 21:51:24 +1100
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>Oh I LOVE the suggestion about the Dido and Aeneas story being a dig at
>Anthony over Cleopatra, that is just SO good. That just made my day.
>It just reminded me of the most amazing, transport-me-to-another-universe
>
>music that would be a perfect warmup for students who are even a tiny bit
>
>receptive to classical music - Purcell's Dido and Aeneas, the Kirsten
>Flagstaad - Elizabeth Schwartzkopf (excuse spelling) recording. Play them
>
>'When I am Laid in Earth'. Guaranteed to melt the hardest heart. If you
>haven't heard it, go listen to it!
>this webpage has an audio file, I don't know if it works though as my
>computer wouldn't load it:
>http://www.alphamusik-shop.de/2059817.html
>
>best wishes
>Helen
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Hot chart ringtones and polyphonics. Go to
>http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilemania/default.asp
>
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Stefano Vitrano
C.E.I. school, Palermo, Italy
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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