Yes, Martin Huges, you are right, Iarba called Aeneas ?semivir? according to his racial resentment, but I think is a method V used not to degrade Rome?s hero too much. For example: If V had let Aeneas be degraded by one of his companion, the public would have been too shocked and Aeneas would not have been the same positive hero. Iarba?s sentence, instead, is an hide message sent by V to better understand Aeneas? character. As a matter of fact Aeneas can?t be compared with the ancient epic heros, as I said in my last post, he is often not the only subject of his actions, he is often like Jason: He would able to obtain nothing without the help of some other character. For example he does not cut a fine figure when he looses his wife in Troy or when he left Dido after having promised her his love (the same as Jason). He is not the real hero of the war against Turnus (their final battle looks like very artificial, very ?pugna ficta?), he stays away from the narration for many times. An hero of that kind could really look like a ?semivir? to V?s public and much more to a society of Aeneas? contemporary period. He should look like quite, I dare say, a gay character to a society of that kind , more closer to a female epic hero models. >-- Messaggio originale -- >Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 15:04:49 +0100 >From: "Stefano Vitrano" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: Re: VIRGIL: RE: VIRGIL teaching Aeneid - inspiring students >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >I was very pleased to get Martin Hughes? post. He evidenced the two major >sources of Dido?s behaviour, Apollonius? Medea and the real character of >Cleopatra. >In my opinion Virgil was clever to create a good mix between these characters. >He managed to create a character who is both sentimental and rational.
>In fact, according to roman, male chauvinist attitude, a female character >rationally stronger than the protagonist would have been unconceivable and, >may be, hateful for V?s public. On the contrary a too sentimental character >would have been a flat character, nearly a satire of female characters. >For this reason Stazius defined V?s style ?paene comicus? when it reaches >the top of its sentimentalism. Besides, V couldn?t have done a mere comparison >with only one of those characters, because both Medea and Cleopatra find >their strength in the ineptitude of their lovers: Jason would be nothing >without M?s support, he would never win his trials and, especially in Euripides?s >tragedy, his behaviour is hateful for public. Cleopatra, instead, managed >to dim her lovers? mind reducing them like beasts and taking the control >on them. And, also by Horace?s famous Carmen (I, 37), we know that a great >part of Romans were terrified by her presence, seeing her as the ?fatale >monstrum? of Roman power. > At the same way, Aeneas is not the strong hero of classic epos, a hero >of that kind would have been unconceivable with the new, fine Augustan mentality, >even Iarba defines him ?semivir?. >Ergo V?s great ability was to create a poem without too strong characters, >making a complex structure in which every character could have his role >and show his intricate behaviour. > >>-- Messaggio originale -- >>Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 17:53:36 +0000 (GMT) >>From: M W Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>Subject: Re: VIRGIL: RE: VIRGIL teaching Aeneid - inspiring students >>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> >>I share your admiration for the Dido and Aeneas story as treated both by >>V and by Purcell, but I think we should be careful about the >>Cleopatra/Dido analogy in V. It's clearly there, but what >>does it imply? Much, much more than a dig at Antony. >> >>Dido isn't perfect but the portrait of her (as later with Camilla, >>another Beloved Enemy figure) is pretty positive. She is beautiful >>despite her cares and exertions, has a strong personality, is fair-minded >>enough to see the Trojan side of the story (heretical as this is for one >>educated in Junonian teachings), is generous to those in trouble and >>loves Aeneas sincerely. One of her political problems is that she cannot >>take her own Tyrian people with her in her increasing favour to the >>Trojan exiles. She stands in the way of Trojan-Roman destiny, but >>unwittingly and with no malevolent intention. >> >>Damien Neilis (V's Aen. and the Argonautica, 2001) draws attention to the >>V/Apollonius links, and Apollonius' Medea is surely one of the models for >>V's Dido. Within limits: Dido entirely lacks Medea's ruthlessness, at >>least until she is driven to complete despair, and Medea would never have >>committed suicide. This model would lead us to expect co-operation between >>hero and heroine (who is culturally ambiguous, torn between East and West) >>to the point where the interests of the heroine's people are disregarded. >>Dido and Cleopatra are alike in not betraying or abandoning their own >>country and people, unless one counts putting them on the losing side in >>a war. >> >>All this would show some understanding for the position taken by Antony >>and then by Gallus, V's closest friend, in seeking some modus vivendi with >>Egypt - perhaps more generally with the peoples and cultures of the East. >>Augustus chose to regard both A and G as traitors, but perhaps even he >>took a version of their point that the Eastern world should not just be >>confronted, but should to some degree be conciliated and find its ideas >>taken seriously. V may have contributed something here. >> >>The overriding message of Aen.IV, presumably representing V's >>long-standing convictions, is surely that the day on which the seeds of >>genocidal war are sown is a very bad day for all concerned >>and for their descendants. However, Augustus' efforts at conciliation >>were perhaps directed at the Jews rather than the Egyptians. For the >>traditional Eastern figure of a mysterious, fierce and seductive woman, >>typified by Cleopatra, he subsituted the mysterious, fierce and >>patriarchal figure of Herod the Great. It's hard to think that A never >>discussed Egyptian and Jewish cultures with V, who had shown great >>interest in both and who must surely have been drawn into the Gallus >>problem, whether or not he agreed to remove Laudes Galli from the final >>version of Geo. IV. >> >>V's Dido does surely echo the historical Cleopatra, political and >>personal partner of Antony, but the overall effect is not sheer scorn for >>Antonian policy but some understanding of why it was plausible, even if >>it was, as A and his circle believed it was, entirely mistaken. >> >>- Martin Hughes >> >> >>On Mon, 19 Jan 2004, Helen South wrote: >> >>> Oh I LOVE the suggestion about the Dido and Aeneas story being a dig >at >>> Anthony over Cleopatra, that is just SO good. That just made my day. >>> It just reminded me of the most amazing, transport-me-to-another-universe >>> music that would be a perfect warmup for students who are even a tiny >bit >>> receptive to classical music - Purcell's Dido and Aeneas, the Kirsten >>> Flagstaad - Elizabeth Schwartzkopf (excuse spelling) recording. Play >them >>> 'When I am Laid in Earth'. Guaranteed to melt the hardest heart. If you >>> haven't heard it, go listen to it! >>> this webpage has an audio file, I don't know if it works though as my >>> computer wouldn't load it: >>> http://www.alphamusik-shop.de/2059817.html >>> >>> best wishes >>> Helen >>> >>> _________________________________________________________________ >>> Hot chart ringtones and polyphonics. Go to >>> http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilemania/default.asp >>> >>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. >>> Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message >>> "unsubscribe mantovano" in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You >>> can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub >>> >>----------------------------------------------------------------------- >>To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. >>Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message >>"unsubscribe mantovano" in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You >>can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub > >Stefano Vitrano >C.E.I. school, Palermo, Italy >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. >Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message >"unsubscribe mantovano" in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You >can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub Stefano Vitrano C.E.I. school, Palermo, Italy [EMAIL PROTECTED] ----------------------------------------------------------------------- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message "unsubscribe mantovano" in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub
